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jasfish

mograph.net RIP?

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mylenium, i dunno why u have so much beef with so much stuff. ive read about three or four of ur posts where u critisize mograph for being 'noisy', or 'unmoderated'.

 

u work with cow right? youve made it your job to help n00bs. isnt that why u write tutorials? to help? so u can see why i dont understand y u are complaining about answering "stupid questions".

 

and for mograph being as 'unorganized' as u say, i dont recall cow having something like a wiki that mograph is attempting (although i could be wrong as i havent been there in a year). that strikes me as some form of organization, and i think it has alot of potential. it is also much easier to navigate than the 500 tutorials over there thatll teach me how to put shine on a 3d stroke going through a virtual wall of tvs.

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Guest bne meyrs

How do we grade such measures? Everyone wants to think their work isn't crap

 

See, this is where mograph.net gets its "bad" rep. We give em a good ol' "mooo" and send em on their way. Hence Mylenium's trash talk.

 

On the same token though, the majority of the time people have great things to say about less impressive reels. Not great in the sense that the work was good, but good constructive crit.. which is what the reel poster wants in the first place. It a way its sort of a filter. Most people who get ripped into pretty hard don't come back until they have something to show for it.

 

Anyways, back on topic...

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See, this is where mograph.net gets its "bad" rep. We give em a good ol' "mooo" and send em on their way. Hence Mylenium's trash talk.

 

On the same token though, the majority of the time people have great things to say about less impressive reels. Not great in the sense that the work was good, but good constructive crit.. which is what the reel poster wants in the first place. It a way its sort of a filter. Most people who get ripped into pretty hard don't come back until they have something to show for it.

 

Anyways, back on topic...

 

I agree. The times that I've posted my feeble work I received very constructive and helpful feedback that was invaluable. This industry does seem to require a relatively thick skin, however, and I'm thankful that I've learned to take it as well as dish it.

 

Sometimes a good knockdown is what you need. If you don't recover then you're probably in the wrong place to begin with. I think the idea is to make you take a good, long look at what you're doing and get a different perspective.

 

It tends to be more subjective than objective, but I think that's the nature of art to begin with.

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absolutely, mograph was the reality check i need to develop my craft to a level that was professionally viable. so the harshness in critique is a necessity.

Edited by mete_shop

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Guest bne meyrs

 

It tends to be more subjective than objective, but I think that's the nature of art to begin with.

 

Most Def.

 

Somebody's thoughts on your work kindles other ideas whether the comments were good or bad, I think. Its one of the reasons why I don't understand how people can get so edgy about taking criticism. In the end it will make you a stronger artist even if you do get discouraged for that couple of days and you sit sulking in your room listening to Meat Loaf's Bat out of hell... (don't laugh!) :(

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Well, my 0.2:

 

mograph.net is far too noisy, unfocused, unmoderated. While some may welcome that wild blend of absolute beginners with absolutely no clue intermingled with long-time pros, I find it more than slightly irritating.

 

I also think many of you are often far too busy with maintaining a certain aura and building a facade. There is too much "How should I present myself?", "What do you guys do?" and "MK12 is cool" nonsense. All these things don't interest me in the slightest and contrary to what someone said, neither feed nor motionographer are doing a better job at it, except for providing some links and video files. There are certain tendencies of "deification" of "the greats" (regardless whether it's people or companies) that for the life of me I can't understand and it's beginning to piss me off just as the film VFX industry pisses me off for similar reasons.

 

Lastly, I simply don't understand a lot of what's going on here because I don't have the slightest idea about the US or other foreign markets. I probably couldn't care less about the latest clip from company X, when I don't even have seen it.

 

Mylenium

 

schnitzelkraut.jpg

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Guest bne meyrs

agree 1000%, i've learned a lot and come a long way because of this board

i wouldn't have my job i have today if it wasnt for this board.... word up isotropy!!

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Yay new class thats whats I say! Allthough seen as im a beginner ill probably be the class after the one that some of u guys are moaning about now. Thats life guys, u get older, u get bored with the same old shit. I thinks its important though not to be a prick when u see 'newbies' gettin excited about stuff ur not that concerned about. Try an remember what u where like when u just got ur first piece done, or had trouble with learning after effects. Just cause you were the first class dosent mean the second or third or fourth wont have to learn evrything u did, ask evry thing u did, get impresssed by the same work u were impressed by. Its not like as a member of the new school that that some every one just taps strait into what the older guys have allready learned.

 

Its a big playgound. People will allways come an go.

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Then what the hell is the use? I don't understand why beginners always get ostracized this way. If you want an exclusive club then make one. Require a showreel to gain entrance and a secret handshake.

 

You know what? I have to teach myself, maintain a day job to support my family, and then have to worry about being true to my real passion because I screwed around in college and didn't get serious until late in the game. I may not even be close to breaking in yet, but I'm not going to let jaded comments like that stand in my way either.

 

Places like this are a godsend to me. If you're so jaded then why be here?

 

 

Preach, brother.

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absolutely, mograph was the reality check i need to develop my craft to a level that was professionally viable. so the harshness in critique is a necessity.

 

 

I totally agree. And as such I intend to start the harsh critique right now by saying that the reason Mylenium is such a negative nancy is because his/her parents were both super laid back and as such he/she craves boundaries and authority figures. I'm assuming they were laid back because there were hoping that Mylenium would stumble upon the bleach beneath the sink and have one last tea party.

 

not trying to be mean....that just my honest (harsh) criticism

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Guest Sao_bento

How do we grade such measures? Everyone wants to think their work isn't crap

I'd guess that Sermon means that people don't have to be experts or pro mographers to post, but that they do need to show that they have a brain and put a little thought into what they write.

 

I can think of many occasions where people either make no attempt to do any research at all before they post, or they post questions asking for very specific answers although they've not bothered to provided the necessary information that would be needed to answer the questions (i.e. "After effects crashed" - but no OS, graphics card, 3rd party plug info).

 

I can also think of occasions where people who obviously are new to this field post a detailed, well thought out question that gets answered in detail. So to suggest that it's hostile to noobs is oversimplifying - Mograph isn't anti-noob, it just aspires to be pro-thought.

 

Regarding the interviews - that was something that Govinda, Firemind, and 3rdMartini were doing, but it was still slow going and at this point none of them are very active here anymore. Beaver and I don't have the keys to the safe, so we can't make any major changes or throw up any new interviews. Justin certainly does a great job at Motionographer, and if you're looking specifically for interviews, I'd highly recommend it.

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I can also think of occasions where people who obviously are new to this field post a detailed, well thought out question that gets answered in detail. So to suggest that it's hostile to noobs is oversimplifying - Mograph isn't anti-noob, it just aspires to be pro-thought.

 

I wasn't trying to suggest that it's anti-noob here at all. Actually I've found quite the contrary, especially when I've posted. It was just Mylenium's post that threw me for a loop because of the way people used to act on a photoshop site I was on for a few years - except I was on the other side of spectrum then.

 

I like the part about aspiring to be pro-thought. I think most people would like the same thing, and you can definitely be a beginner without being an idiot. My apologies to Sermon if I came across accusatory.

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Guest Sao_bento

I wasn't trying to suggest that it's anti-noob here at all. Actually I've found quite the contrary, especially when I've posted. It was just Mylenium's post that threw me for a loop because of the way people used to act on a photoshop site I was on for a few years - except I was on the other side of spectrum then.

 

I like the part about aspiring to be pro-thought. I think most people would like the same thing, and you can definitely be a beginner without being an idiot. My apologies to Sermon if I came across accusatory.

That wasn't all focused exclusively on you Lompoc42, my mistake for not making that clear. Several posts in this thread led me to believe that some people feel that Mograph is not a place for beginners, so I was kind of trying address them all in a single summary.

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why can't we call Beaver "Angry Beaver" any more? I remember it being an attempt to play nice with someone being sensitive.

 

Whats the deal with Millenium? I love his tutorials on C4D mograph with his German accent, kinda makes them more fun. I was surprised and disappointed by harsh comments.

Edited by hotbuttertrucker

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1. i also did a few interviews that i've posted here. doing interviews is hard because approximately 2/3 of the people that say they will do them never answer the questions.

 

2. i said that i expect the quality of their POSTING to be better than the cow, not their work. it's fine if their work isn't the best as long as they contribute positively to "the community."

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which is a damn shame since you're the best freestyle mograph rapper here

 

"I can't be bothered" - this is a phrase often heard in the UK. It seems most appropriate to describe my lack of postings.

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I still do design, but my internet interests have changed. I do mostly print and product branding now.

 

I'm more interested in Sermon's blog than this forum.

Guess I'd rather read educated commentary than dripping sarcasm.

 

I go to Motionographer to see what's new, CGTalk for industry news, and read/look at art books for design ideas.

This place was great when I first found it, but now it just seems to be a lot of Cow questions or "what should I call myself" posts.

 

Maybe it is just a phase and Mograph will 'blow up' again soon. When it does, just remember that I was always a loyal fan!

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I have to admit I almost never look at reels; maybe I'm just old but 99.9% of the stuff just blends together IMO. For me it's easier to have fresh ideas if I'm not constantly looking at other people's ideas, but it was completely the opposite when I was just getting started. These days I get much more out of looking at non mograph design and art.

 

I just don't worry about it; the trends, the shitty clients, the selling out; it's all been going on forever. As long as I do a handful of good projects a year and I make enough money to continue the lifestyle I want, I can't really complain.

I liked this so I thought it worthwhile quoting.

 

Is 3 years really long enough for you to get tired of your career? I doubt the longevity of your original love. I said it before and I'll say it again now, if you dont want to follow others then make sure you're the person being followed. If you don't like what people are creating right now who gives a shit? Make what you want and don't care that other people are making more CG, more live action, more animation or whatever.

 

Christ, remember what it was to be a designer.

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Then what the hell is the use? I don't understand why beginners always get ostracized this way. If you want an exclusive club then make one. Require a showreel to gain entrance and a secret handshake.

 

...

 

Places like this are a godsend to me. If you're so jaded then why be here?

 

You are missing the point and confusing form with content. Simple truth of the matter is, here on mograph.net there's no differentiation between technical and creative discussions, nor is there anyoody who seems to give a shit about staying on topic. Threads get hijacked everytime be it a beginner breaking flow of a discussion when he doesn't know dick about the topic at hand or the other way round long-time members such as Sao Bento posting oneliners that do not make sense except to people who know him just as long. Those are similarly pointless. I would really appreciate if everybody got a hold over himself and showed some more discipline in those matters.

 

Mylenium

 

schnitzelkraut.jpg

 

Well, I love you, too. Shove it up your ass and be done with it.

 

Mylenium

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are you from germany or something?

 

but seriously.. the reason people liked mograph in the first place was because you could say or do whatever you wanted (except for headbox). theres a well of amazing conversations ranging from art and design to technical help to a billion other topics.

 

 

 

I would really appreciate if everybody got a hold over himself and showed some more discipline in those matters.

 

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mylenium, i dunno why u have so much beef with so much stuff. ive read about three or four of ur posts where u critisize mograph for being 'noisy', or 'unmoderated'.

 

Because it is. Sorry buddy, but having technical posts, inspirational discussions, politics and the mograph.net-friends network pop up all in one forum section is not my idea of a well structured forum. Call me a stiffnecked German bureaucrat if you must, but I feel part of the problems for mograph.net come from the fact that people don't know where to go with their questions and the forum itself isn't taken care of.

 

u work with cow right? youve made it your job to help n00bs. isnt that why u write tutorials? to help? so u can see why i dont understand y u are complaining about answering "stupid questions".

 

Then let me enlighten you: This is 2006. It's as simple as that. Searching the web for info is easy as pie, people have fast connections and compared to 1993/1994, when I started doing 3D, there are about a bazillion websites more. So assuming anybody is seriously interested, it is not to much too ask to go hunting for information. you know, many of those really stupid questions are so obviously simple, it is quite clear they didn't even look in the manual and that is something that I absolutely can't stand. It is the kind of people who just want to make their life easy at the cost of other people doing the work for them.

 

In addition to that, it baffles me how much naivity can be found with some of those people. They can't even manage their OS, yet they call themselves "artists" and try to work with professional apps? Something ain't right there.

 

Lastly, and this really gets me, you all are insisting that mograph.net is a high profile site. It is not. Structural and organizational issues aside, you all are far too much becoming part of that "noise" that has made this site so unattractive. As I already wrote in another reply, you don't stick to topics, have nothing better to do than posting fun pics or sending mysterious messages to friends by means of a public forum. A high profile forum powered by high profile people should not suffer those problems, should it?

 

You are all being divas and as much as the COW may be lo-fi, this doesn't happen there. I don't get backfired with stupid comments and people are even thankful for what little of my limited knowledge I share with them. This makes posting there a much more pleasent experience after all.

 

And let me set the picture straight for you once and for all, boys: I'm the diva here. Being cynical, sarcastic and arrogant doesn't befit you. I can do that much better and beat you everytime, so spare me your distasteful jokes, insinuations and comments on my personality. It's simply not your place to tell me how I shall live my life.

 

and for mograph being as 'unorganized' as u say, i dont recall cow having something like a wiki that mograph is attempting (although i could be wrong as i havent been there in a year). that strikes me as some form of organization, and i think it has alot of potential. it is also much easier to navigate than the 500 tutorials over there thatll teach me how to put shine on a 3d stroke going through a virtual wall of tvs.

 

Ha, and there you go. Again you are confusing form with substance. Can you be sure the Wiki will be that great? Do you know who is going to contribute? Sorry, Wiki's are a trend, not a way of information management and I don't see it becoming anything particularly noteworthy for mograph.net - I've seen too many empty ones to believe in that hype any longer. I'm not saying the COW is perfect, but presumably anybody who is really willing to learn something, will find the tutorials, no matter whether they are not sitting on your nose. most people are simply not looking hard enough because they are too lazy or too stupid to understand what a search function is meant for - a commonality shared with mograph.net, I believe.

 

Mylenium

Edited by Mylenium

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