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Tread

No Pattern bleh

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He is just a little bit older than me.

I saw his site a few years back, when it was just photos.

I will admit I am jealous he had drive then, still does.

I had to go to school and play it safe and hope to get a work ethic.

He took the initiative, most people would just say ‘I have an idea’ and never do anything about it.

It does suck that on his site it used to say that the reason for ‘Nopattern’ was because he’d evolve and never repeat himself.

But throw money my way, praise me and I think I’d start to play it safe.

He does seem to be improving the glow-style he does, so at least he’s trying to better that sort of work.

He seems to draw a lot too, but yeah I am waiting to see something new, another pattern from him.

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Thing is, reputation builds exponentially, especially in the design field.

I personally know of people who started with kicking the shit ouf of hell tight work, got praises and big bucks, and soon settled for convenient patterns, repeating themselves in every piece they produced, and sold. Oh and they are still selling big.

 

Anyway, if you folks remember, chuck took off pretty nicely, with really fresh stuff that was pleasing everybody, and that slowly evolved into what he's doing now. I bet my ass his clients are queuing for flares and glows, specifically.

 

And of course, even if you did it for "art", when people go all whoa! at your work, and they also pay big, you can easily start thinking "omg, im sooo good, what im doing is so right, hell yeah!" - especially if you're 19.

 

We'll really have to see how much is this gonna stand (and i tend to think this discussion - and all the others on this subject - are a good hint), and what happens afterwards.

 

Oh, and yeah, that cover is crap :|

Edited by T02

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So here I am at the start of 2007, going into my 4th year of freelancing, and I'm still seeing these threads pop up constantly on places like this, Newstoday, Yayhooray, etc...it's amazing to me how much some of you assume and how much some of you THINK you know, but really you have no idea... especially this person, SermonOfMockery:

 

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also, i'm curious how much these magazine illustrations and album covers pay. i can't imagine they're getting more than $2K or something for an album package (probably less) and $200-$500 at most for the illustrations. that might sound like a decent amount, but that means that in order to gross $75K a year you'd have to do one album cover every week and a half, which is a recipe for burnout if there ever was one. that will leave you with about $40-50K after taxes, which isn't that much for such a labor-intensive style. also, if you're doing that many covers, your style will probably get played out pretty quickly, leaving you in a lurch.</i>

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i never, ever talk about money on the internet, but I will say this much...you couldn't be further off and don't seem to be fully aware of what budgets can actually be for artists these days. you can't imagine people are getting more than 2K for an album package?? labels like Warner Brothers, Island Def Jam, Sony BMG... if you really, honestly think they would ask an artist to do an entire album package for 2K or less for a major band (on average) you are mistaken. and $200-$500 for a magazine illustration is very below par for an average magazine budget. and i'm not just talking about the jobs that i work on, i'm talking about any respectable designer/illustrator working for any respectable publication... consider an average single page design/illustration for a major pub usually goes for closer to 1K... that's a rough estimate, but it's a lot more realistic than what you said.

 

your guess of 40-50k really waters down the amount of work that people like nigel and myself and a lot of others do. and i'm not saying that people making 40-50k a year are bums, but the way you say it makes it sound so lowly...

 

but i digress... i've had countless people suggest to me that i don't get involved on messageboards and that i just ignore stuff, but that's not me, and i enjoy getting in on conversation and defending myself as well as my close friends (nigel) when i see people babbling on about things they don't have a clue about... and just for the record, i worked on that microsoft job with nigel and we were paid equal amounts, and no, it was not $70,000. just another example of things coming out of thin air.

 

sorry to sound so defensive, but sometimes things need to be cleared up for truth's sake.

hate my work all you want, call it trendy, call me a hack, this and that...whatever. those are opinions you're all very much entitled to and i respect... beyond that, just got to get your facts straight

Edited by nopattern

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I'm happy about this, because I think this 20 year old 'design wonder' is nothing short of an uneducated design hack who happens to have an artistic flare. I saw him at semi-permanent last year in NY. Total waste of an hour of my day.

 

sorry i wasted an hour of your day man... i had just turned 20 and was speaking for my very first time at the lincoln-center in NYC at a huge conference in front of 1000+ people for a full hour. you'd be a little shaky too, believe me

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chuck, thanks for your posts. i'm the first person to admit when i'm wrong and i'm glad to hear you're making better money than i had guessed. those numbers were based on my experiences with some of those labels and obviously they're paying you a lot more than they paid for the things i worked on!

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sure thing. i wasn't trying to be blunt and sound pissed off at all either, i just really get fired up and intense about these things to be honest. i'm very happy with my position in my career and life right now, and i think anybody would get a little worked up if they saw people discussing details of their business and income on a messageboard without correct information or ideas.

 

i must say - i have a lot of respect for the people who posted in this thread, even the ones who don't like what i do. there have been countless other threads on other sites, and often times it just gets rude and totally disrespectful. i appreciate people's opinions and thoughts even if they aren't in line with my own.

Edited by nopattern

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Keep living the dream bro!

 

The way I see it... seeing threads like these about yourself is like a band seeing its album being seeded to shit on some torrent site. On the surface its a bad thing but the fact that its happening must mean you're good and doing well for yourself.

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totally- you SHOULD be proud of where you're at you're making shit happen and we're just posting on a messageboard.

 

i apologize for anything i may have gotten wrong- i was only speculating and it looks like i was off the mark. i personally worked really fucking hard on a lot of shit for many of those same labels and never really had a thing to show for it, so i'm bitter- hats off to you for doing a better job of it than i did!

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Man! It seems that more often than not, when someone is being talked about on here, that person shows up...which must mean...this site has some super push with search engines or the flow of the intraweb...therefore....you know...that guy from Minneapolis, his name is Aaron Schurman...he really makes some halfway descent work and would love to go out to LA and become a master and his work at www.boywonderdesign.com is really not half bad!

 

Okay...fine...my site is outdated...I get it. I am working on it. :unsure:

 

My shameless attempt to ride the popularity float is over. <_<

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sorry to sound so defensive, but sometimes things need to be cleared up for truth's sake.

hate my work all you want, call it trendy, call me a hack, this and that...whatever. those are opinions you're all very much entitled to and i respect... beyond that, just got to get your facts straight

 

bluntness goes along way around these parts for some reason. but whatevs.. if your clients and agencies(bearing in mind that they are huge clients) are happy then who cares what other designers think. not that their points are always invalid but its up to you decide what which criticism to take and what to brush off.

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i heard him speak at OFFF in barcelona last year and saw some nice illustration work and some stuff i didn't really like that much.

 

but what really put me off some was a slightly subservient posture towards the people who hire him... reminded me of the "polka dot" anecdote in one of belief's videos.

 

also... the way he said somethink like "some people ask me if i do drugs, but i don't, it just comes from inside my head"... refering to illustration work with a clear influence from the 60's made me feel that he either doesn't know that's where he got the influence from or if he does he could show a little more respect for lsd and such. that sort of imagery started showing up around the time people started taking it. my point is that if he doesn't take any drugs (a perfectly sensible thing to do) other people did. this is not to say that taking drugs will make you do brilliant work (the opposite is closer to the truth), but when a certain kind of imagery can be traced back to a certain time/place and some of his work is reminiscent of that... he could be a bit more humble about it.

 

at the time a friend of mine who was also at the presentation nicknamed him chuck cheesy anderson and after seeing this album cover, i'd tend to agree.

 

edit:

 

i pressed the fancy "add reply" button without noticing that there is more than one page on this thread, meaning i didn't read chuck's posts. so what i said above holds true (personal opinions) but speaking in the third person when the person whose work i was talking about is actually posting here is a bit rude, so this is a sort of an explanation. i do respect your work chuck, some of it i *really* like, some i think is a bit cheesy but solid nonetheless.

 

good on you for posting here. cheers.

Edited by Boomberry

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if your clients and agencies(bearing in mind that they are huge clients) are happy then who cares what other designers think.

 

because if you can impress another designer who knows what they are looking at, who else is there to impress?

 

Chuck, it's cool you showed up to duke it out. Good on ya. But I'll stand by what I said, however harsh it may have been. I won't deny I'm envious of your success, but as someone who has an immense amount of respect for good design, it's just a natural defense. I just don't understand what the big deal is. But whatever, more power to you, or something.

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My thought is this...

 

I close my eyes and picture Chuck and Nigel as famous commissioned artists.

Their clients, I imagine, say "I want something no other design group we deal with will create".

So they create what their client wants based on their artistic ability.

 

And it's funny how designers, who live by such a tight niche of rules, bitch and complain about these artists succeeding in their neck of the woods.

 

All in all, this is just a subjective war. No one wins, for every person you find that hates, I will find a loyal admirer.

 

And by the way, that was some pretty good criticism to begin all this. Felt as if I was reading the babbling of a drunken, jealous lover.

 

But this is the lounge so anything goes. Even constructive criticism?

Edited by Peiter

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i think i kinda understand (though not totally agree with) tread's sensibilities... that design should be dictated entirely by purpose and function. but seriously, that occurs 0% of the time. subculture and/or style connotation is required in virtually everything related to ad & marketing because of the huge emphasis on targeting specific demographics (something that's gonna just get more intense in coming years). that means stylish fluff is indeed part of purpose and function

 

in tread's eyes, nopattern isn't a good designer. fine, whatever. but he most definitely is what i refer to as a good "design auteur". this kinda thing has long existed in the illustration industry-- freelancers who are sought out because the client wants their "look", and not necessarily the "best design solution". and generally speaking, the majority of illustrators want oh so badly to be one of those auteurs, rather than having to shift gears from miltonbradley boardgame boxcover to aeronautical swag to readersdigest spot illustrations to make a living. and i suspect that most designers desire the same. from the work i've seen of tread's he's 100% designer and 0% autuer. there's nothing at all wrong with that, it's just a different mindset. and if it's worth anything, the 100% design types that i've encountered seem to always hate design auteurs, especially the really successful auteurs, as if they've somehow cheated in the game of design or something. even back in school i saw this.

 

and tread, i say this with no venom, but your response and viewpoint is kneejerk-textbook of folks who come out of those bootcamp portfolio schools.

Edited by jaan

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Like his work or not. Sometimes I get tired of all that dissing here on mograph. I mean, what's the point? It just spreads negativity.

 

It's okay to discuss trendiness vs. solid design, but we've already been through that in the Exopolis thread.

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haha, Jaan, you pinned me to a T... well done! I'll take it. I'm glad I have this, cuz I've always had trouble explaining my point of view, now I have something to refer to. Very well put.

 

And I admit, I did get a little out of hand, making myself look like a jealous snob. Oh well, take this as me laughing at myself in public.

 

i think i kinda understand (though not totally agree with) tread's sensibilities... that design should be dictated entirely by purpose and function. but seriously, that occurs 0% of the time. subculture and/or style connotation is required in virtually everything related to ad & marketing because of the huge emphasis on targeting specific demographics (something that's gonna just get more intense in coming years). that means stylish fluff is indeed part of purpose and function

 

in tread's eyes, nopattern isn't a good designer. fine, whatever. but he most definitely is what i refer to as a good "design auteur". this kinda thing has long existed in the illustration industry-- freelancers who are sought out because the client wants their "look", and not necessarily the "best design solution". and generally speaking, the majority of illustrators want oh so badly to be one of those auteurs, rather than having to shift gears from miltonbradley boardgame boxcover to aeronautical swag to readersdigest spot illustrations to make a living. and i suspect that most designers desire the same. from the work i've seen of tread's he's 100% designer and 0% autuer. there's nothing at all wrong with that, it's just a different mindset. and if it's worth anything, the 100% design types that i've encountered seem to always hate design auteurs, especially the really successful auteurs, as if they've somehow cheated in the game of design or something. even back in school i saw this.

 

and tread, i say this with no venom, but your response and viewpoint is kneejerk-textbook of folks who come out of those bootcamp portfolio schools.

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