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yogert909

Freelance Bookings and Holds

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yeah I quit the full time freelance thing a while back. get a nice full time gig & take small freelance projects on the side. thats the way to do it.

 

I would if I could get a permanent animation job - not the easiest thing. In fact, I'm only freelance because no one would hire me.

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I'm in a "hold" situation right now. A client I like a lot, and have worked with a lot has put me on hold for a couple weeks in Sept. My standard procedure is to agree to the hold, and let them know that if I get a call for work during that period, I'll call the client that asked for the hold. If they say they don't want me to accept the new request, I agree then send an invoice for the amount of time the new request was to be.

 

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But I've always got those four weeks of vacation, right Tomcat?

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3. A good trick, (I can't believe I'm telling you this, since I also have to call artists and hold/book them) is five simple words.

"Put Everyone on 2nd Hold" OR more selfishley put "You're your own 1st Hold". Nobody should know who has you on any holds, so now you have the option to pick and choose the clients you want to work with. Anybody that puts you on 2nd hold is looking for an alternate just in case.

 

My clients have always called it a pencil rather than a hold, maybe thats a UK thing...

 

But is this suggesting we tell all clients they can only have a second hold? If I told my clients that, my guess is they'd go and find someone else right away and hold them on a first hold, thinking I was unlikely to be free...

 

I recently had the situation where a client booked me, cancelled me ( I let them off ), booked me again, then cancelled me AGAIN the night before I was due to start. They offered to pay up at full rate, I naturally accepted. I also agreed to go in to the office, in case any jobs turned up, for housekeeping tasks etc etc, and spent a week tidying project files and on the net. The (casual) agreement was that if I had a job come up that week, they'd let me go and ( I think...) not pay for those days... It never happened but kind of left me wondering if anyone ever got paid for a cancelled booking and didn't even have to show up... maybe for half-rate or something???

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It never happened but kind of left me wondering if anyone ever got paid for a cancelled booking and didn't even have to show up... maybe for half-rate or something???

 

Yep- I always try for a full rate, and have gotten it on more than one occcasion. Either way, you can still negotiate for some kind of kill fee.

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Anyone know if there is a proper procedure for terminating a hold? Like away that won't piss anyone off?

 

Thanks!

 

 

just let them know asap. release from a hold isnt bad. release from a booking request is.

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3. Why not just take the dream job? Whats stopping you?

 

 

One thing I can say has really helped me: I spent some time reading up on the labor Laws of California. There are precedents to cover everything thats been discussed in this thread, and I found it very eye-opening. Also, I believe any time you are educated on a subject, you handle that subject with more confidence.

 

On a personal note, our business is infected with hacks who pass themselves off as "business" types or producers. Gain just a little knowledge of how standards and practices work in other fields, and you'll be amazed how childish the business of our field looks in comparison. The fact that artists are on this board asking "what is the proper / pro way of handling......." is proof of our dedication, and that motion graphics is more cereberally taxing than being a douche producer or entertainment "businessman". Dont take shit from them.

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3. Why not just take the dream job? Whats stopping you?

 

 

One thing I can say has really helped me: I spent some time reading up on the labor Laws of California. There are precedents to cover everything thats been discussed in this thread, and I found it very eye-opening. Also, I believe any time you are educated on a subject, you handle that subject with more confidence.

 

On a personal note, our business is infected with hacks who pass themselves off as "business" types or producers. Gain just a little knowledge of how standards and practices work in other fields, and you'll be amazed how childish the business of our field looks in comparison. The fact that artists are on this board asking "what is the proper / pro way of handling......." is proof of our dedication, and that motion graphics is more cereberally taxing than being a douche producer or entertainment "businessman". Dont take shit from them.

 

Agreed. It's easy to get caught up in the woolly dream that we are "artists". We are not artists. We are commercial artists.

 

Not understanding the business side of what we do is as fatal as not understanding the design side. I don't blame the hacks for the damage they do. They act according to their nature. It's our fault for letting them get away with it.

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I can't remember which thread, but I distinctly recall someone saying to only hand out 2nd holds. I'm just a crummy 9-to-5-er tho, don't take my word for it.

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I can't remember which thread, but I distinctly recall someone saying to only hand out 2nd holds. I'm just a crummy 9-to-5-er tho, don't take my word for it.

 

You're absolutely right. I normally only give out seconds holds but I was pressured into a longterm first hold. No bueno.

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I can't remember which thread, but I distinctly recall someone saying to only hand out 2nd holds. I'm just a crummy 9-to-5-er tho, don't take my word for it.
You're absolutely right. I normally only give out seconds holds but I was pressured into a longterm first hold. No bueno.

 

??????????????????? blink.gif

 

How can you give out 2nds, 3rds, etc? A first hold is needed in order to have a second. It doesn't have any meaning other than someone asked first. What is the logic here? So you are free of obligation on your part and can drop the client's request willie-nilly?

 

A hold is just a hold, and shouldn't prevent anyone from continuing to look for work during that time. If someone is requesting time that has been allocated to a hold, you simply contact whoever has a hold on you and they need to make a decision, whether it be within 24 hours or by the end of the day - up to you, the contractor.

 

Whats the point of only giving out 2nds, etc?

 

Long-term holds are a different story that can bring ethics into question. Sometimes its abused to essentially have an on-call part-timer in their pocket. You should at least get a guaranteed minimum agreement before accepting a hold request longer than a month.

Edited by AromaKat

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??????????????????? blink.gif

 

How can you give out 2nds, 3rds, etc? A first hold is needed in order to have a second. It doesn't have any meaning other than someone asked first. What is the logic here? So you are free of obligation on your part and can drop the client's request willie-nilly?

 

 

Pretty much. The point of only giving out second holds is so you can drop the client if a juicier gig comes along afterwards. Say you've agreed to a first hold for a studio that needs you on a tiny project for 3 weeks, and then before starting someone else calls you up with an offer for a 6 month contract starting tomorrow working on a big budget movie. Best to keep options as open as possible.

 

If the client *knows* they're your first hold, they have the option of officially booking you once that second offer comes around, which wouldn't be good for the freelancer as they'd definitely want that second job instead.

Edited by beau+++

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??????????????????? blink.gif

 

How can you give out 2nds, 3rds, etc? A first hold is needed in order to have a second. It doesn't have any meaning other than someone asked first. What is the logic here? So you are free of obligation on your part and can drop the client's request willie-nilly?

 

A hold is just a hold, and shouldn't prevent anyone from continuing to look for work during that time. If someone is requesting time that has been allocated to a hold, you simply contact whoever has a hold on you and they need to make a decision, whether it be within 24 hours or by the end of the day - up to you, the contractor.

 

Whats the point of only giving out 2nds, etc?

 

Long-term holds are a different story that can bring ethics into question. Sometimes its abused to essentially have an on-call part-timer in their pocket. You should at least get a guaranteed minimum agreement before accepting a hold request longer than a month.

 

In my situation it was a six month first hold. I was naive and accepted it.

 

AromaKat I am definitely going to adopt your policy of 1st holds being no longer than a month and anything longer requiring a guaranteed minimum.

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Pretty much. The point of only giving out second holds is so you can drop the client if a juicier gig comes along afterwards. Say you've agreed to a first hold for a studio that needs you on a tiny project for 3 weeks, and then before starting someone else calls you up with an offer for a 6 month contract starting tomorrow working on a big budget movie. Best to keep options as open as possible.

 

If the client *knows* they're your first hold, they have the option of officially booking you once that second offer comes around, which wouldn't be good for the freelancer as they'd definitely want that second job instead.

 

Sounds good, but wouldn't the client just continue to call around for a first hold, leaving you with nothing? Every time I tell someone they are a second hold I feel like I am saying "probably not".

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I have to admit that I think the whole hold system seems completely twizzled. The only reason not to do second holds only is fear of losing the income to someone else. The US has historically had a slightly different attitude towards competition to the UK, but if you respect and trust your own talent I think you'd be crazy to give the power over your own time away on first holds. If you get a better offer and are then obliged to say ' hang on while I ask my hold' you could easily lose both jobs within the hour or two that you juggle the telephone.

 

If everyone starts doing only second holds (which seems reasonable to me) then soon there won't be much point in producers having holds at all and the system will start to crumble. Which, I think, sounds like a good thing.

 

Bit of a rant, this.

 

I rarely get pencilled in any more (it was mostly just one post house that was asking a few years ago at the time of my last post, and they were very meek about it) now its either on or off.

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One thing I have learnt not to be indecisive about things as people are impatient and want answers quickly. Obviously you need to be flexible but I have found that if you were to ask more qustions than you answer about jobs/ availability/ practises during initial communications with clients then the results aren't favourable.

 

You might think that this goes without saying but I was of the thinking that the more open and honest about your thoughts and the more flexible you are willing to be, then the happier a client will be but I guess often this just makes you look indecisive.

 

Would you agree? I'm still finding my feet as far as freelancing goes so I don't really know... I work 9 to 5 as a Motion Graphics Designer and am always up for doing freelance on the side but I can never seem to get this to work - most people want you to be in their office during work hours - so you would have to agree to do it in a booked holiday from work (which requires a longer notice period than most studios will give for booking a freelancer). Has anybody here managed to make this work?

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One thing I have learnt not to be indecisive about things as people are impatient and want answers quickly. Obviously you need to be flexible but I have found that if you were to ask more qustions than you answer about jobs/ availability/ practises during initial communications with clients then the results aren't favourable.

 

You might think that this goes without saying but I was of the thinking that the more open and honest about your thoughts and the more flexible you are willing to be, then the happier a client will be but I guess often this just makes you look indecisive.

 

Would you agree? I'm still finding my feet as far as freelancing goes so I don't really know... I work 9 to 5 as a Motion Graphics Designer and am always up for doing freelance on the side but I can never seem to get this to work - most people want you to be in their office during work hours - so you would have to agree to do it in a booked holiday from work (which requires a longer notice period than most studios will give for booking a freelancer). Has anybody here managed to make this work?

 

I freelanced but am now employed. I still get my old freelance clients calling asking to book me sometimes. The only option is for me to work either 1 or both days in the weekend.

 

Same problem as you have. They want me for at least 1 full day usually in their studio, so that clashes with the employee job. Most of the time a say no to the weekend work. It means working 12 days straight and I don't really want to feel like a zombie at the end of it. It's frustrating as the weekend job pays more than a full week as an employee.

 

If you really want freelance work you could let people know you are available on the weekends. Most of the studios I freelanced to don't stick strictly to the Mon-Fri routine. They work whenever there is a job that needs to be done.

Edited by destro

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I have to admit that I think the whole hold system seems completely twizzled. The only reason not to do second holds only is fear of losing the income to someone else. The US has historically had a slightly different attitude towards competition to the UK, but if you respect and trust your own talent I think you'd be crazy to give the power over your own time away on first holds. If you get a better offer and are then obliged to say ' hang on while I ask my hold' you could easily lose both jobs within the hour or two that you juggle the telephone.

 

If everyone starts doing only second holds (which seems reasonable to me) then soon there won't be much point in producers having holds at all and the system will start to crumble. Which, I think, sounds like a good thing.

 

Bit of a rant, this.

 

I rarely get pencilled in any more (it was mostly just one post house that was asking a few years ago at the time of my last post, and they were very meek about it) now its either on or off.

Completely agree.

 

-m

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I have to admit that I think the whole hold system seems completely twizzled. The only reason not to do second holds only is fear of losing the income to someone else. The US has historically had a slightly different attitude towards competition to the UK, but if you respect and trust your own talent I think you'd be crazy to give the power over your own time away on first holds. If you get a better offer and are then obliged to say ' hang on while I ask my hold' you could easily lose both jobs within the hour or two that you juggle the telephone.

 

If everyone starts doing only second holds (which seems reasonable to me) then soon there won't be much point in producers having holds at all and the system will start to crumble. Which, I think, sounds like a good thing.

 

Bit of a rant, this.

 

I rarely get pencilled in any more (it was mostly just one post house that was asking a few years ago at the time of my last post, and they were very meek about it) now its either on or off.

Completely agree.

 

-m

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