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Guest silatix

bush, kerry or nader?

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Guest parallax

As far as i understand it, we europeans get to see shit that doesn't even show up in the US media. Even lots of 9/11 footage was anxiously pulled from all broadcasters in the US.

 

Thats some fucked up orwellian bs, pardon my french.

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Guest davidheijl

Ah well, lots of people are not quite mentally stable...

 

I mean here in Flanders (Belgium), the extreme-right wing party Vlaams Blok became the largest party - even though it's common knowledge that the party leaders have a neo-fascist history. go figure.

and that's in a traditionally pretty progressive country with one of the best social security systems in the world.

 

this makes Kerry's chances look bleak to me. people are just scared and will vote for whoever has the best tv campaign. if Fox & co say Bush is better, that's what they'll believe.

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Guest igorschmigor

Yes, that's pretty bad. I think i'd leave germany if a fascist party became biggest party here. What goes on in the eastern part of germany is pretty scary too.

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Guest jeanorama

Last week, the Census Bureau released statistics showing that for the first

time in years, poverty had increased for three straight years, while the

number of Americans without health care increased to a record level.[1] But

instead of changing its economic and health care policies, the Bush

administration today is announcing plans to change the way the statistics

are compiled. The move is just the latest in a series of actions by the

White House to doctor or eliminate longstanding and nonpartisan economic

data collection methods.

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Guest parallax
Last week, the Census Bureau released statistics showing that for the first

time in years, poverty had increased for three straight years, while the

number of Americans without health care increased to a record level.[1] But

instead of changing its economic and health care policies, the Bush

administration today is announcing plans to change the way the statistics

are compiled. The move is just the latest in a series of actions by the

White House to doctor or eliminate longstanding and nonpartisan economic

data collection methods.

 

Jeanorama, got any more info/links on that?

Manipulating statistics, combined with current media policies, and all other measures taking away public privacy, is what i simply call a facist state. This is the end of democracy in the US, if there was any anyway.

 

If this is true, i have no idea why people are still taking the peacefull road in the US, or even ignoring the facts.

 

I have one word.

 

Revolution.

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Guest silatix

as of this afternoon 1700 people have been arrested since sunday at the republican national convention in new york city.. cnn, fox, nbc and the rest are making light jokes about the protests as if any of the issues dont matter

 

the news networks are a bunch of shit.. wolf blitzer or whatever his name is was talking to an israeli and offering his condolences for the double bus bombing the other day and then 30 seconds later started asking questions about the possible spy situation.. the media has no moral or conscience.. its just a partisan world

 

i just dont think revolution is enough.. a change of power into proper hands is necessary.. and i dont think everyone is 100% happy with kerry.. but would rather have him than bush

 

Last week, the Census Bureau released statistics showing that for the first

time in years, poverty had increased for three straight years, while the

number of Americans without health care increased to a record level.[1] But

instead of changing its economic and health care policies, the Bush

administration today is announcing plans to change the way the statistics

are compiled. The move is just the latest in a series of actions by the

White House to doctor or eliminate longstanding and nonpartisan economic

data collection methods.

 

Jeanorama, got any more info/links on that?

Manipulating statistics, combined with current media policies, and all other measures taking away public privacy, is what i simply call a facist state. This is the end of democracy in the US, if there was any anyway.

 

If this is true, i have no idea why people are still taking the peacefull road in the US, or even ignoring the facts.

 

I have one word.

 

Revolution.

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Guest jasfish

bush may be the problem but kerry isn't the answer. revolutions need to start from the bottom and work their way up, not from the top down. IMO people are missing the big picture and putting too much effort into getting rid of bush and not really considering what next. anyone who thinks kerry is the answer is a fool. he's just another cardboard version of bush albeit not as evil. getting bush out is only a small first step towards re-gaining democracy. do you really believe someone married to a billionaire has your best interests at heart? bs. this is not a quick fix problem. replacing bush is only a band-aid in the scheme of things. i believe almost all politicians are worried about one thing - getting re-elected.

 

there are already so many problems on a local level, until people wake up and make your local representatives listen things won't change. we need to re-take things locally and stop putting the interests of the few (the rich) ahead of the best needs of many. democracy is not always the best answer anyway, especially for a country our size. a mob rules mentality hidden behind a majority rules ethos isn't a heckuva lot better. we need less government, not more.

 

besides, this has been going on since our countries birth. read the "people's history of the united states" by howard zinn. look at the decline of the roman empire. those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

 

and please don't take my ramblings as being pro-bush or anti-kerry or whatever your agenda is. i don't like either.

 

okay, now i'm done venting. my last and only political post ;)

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Guest govinda

You go Green Bayer! You're in a swing state you know. Wisconson most recently showed Bush +1 or +2, completely on the basis of those Swift Boat liars. You gonna sit for that? Russ Feingold could use a little help, no?

 

Anyone who doubts Kerry's stones should read up on his single-handed dismantling of the BCCI criminal network. Bank of Credit & Commerce International was a massive, corrupt enterprise specializing in money laundering for drug-dealers and terrorists. Kerry got wind of it through his Senate involvement in the Iran-Contra scandal. Nobody was willing to help his investigation because BCCI had bought off prominent members of both parties as insurance policies against this very kind of investigation. Regardless, and against the wishes of his own party, Kerry pressed ahead and tore the shop down. I was in Singapore for part of it, and his actions reverberated hugely there, Hong Kong, and all over Asia. It slimed some big Democrat names. It may not be talked about because it wasn't a big win for the Democrats, but it was a monstrous achievement, the kind of thing that makes you think, hey, maybe things will get cleaned up if this guy was president. Without Kerry and his man Robert Morgenthau, BCCI would probably still be running.

 

It was more, even to this day, than Bush has done to fight terrorism--BCCI was fronting for the kind of money transfer that pays for a bombing in Madrid, for example, or merely for women being abducted by sex-traffickers in Belarus. That kind of thing.

 

Read the short version at Washington Monthly.

 

Idealism is great. Never lose it. But in the meantime the real world is out there and it's not gonna bother with a revolution when the diapers need changing.

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Guest davidheijl

that's just the problem you guys are facing in the US - in your two party system, if you want to get rid of a bad guy, you need to vote for the only other (serious) candidate...

a multiparty system has the advantage that every now and again, things are totally turned around and a party in power gets decimated. in the couple of years after that, things really do change...

on the other hand, sometimes votes are so split up that you get a government with three or more parties, which ends up doing nothing more than bickering...

 

ah well. let's make some pretty pictures, eh?

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Guest govinda

In coalition governments like most Euro countries, the most fringe parties too often wield disproportionate power by simple blackmail--if they split off from the coalition the government can lose its majority. This has been going on for years--sometimes more of a problem than others.

 

But in my lifetime, I'd love to see a third party in the US. The trouble is that the money is always going to be there from special interest groups, no matter what the party calls itself. Cut off the head, a new one grows. If a new party forms, fine, they need money, so they hit up the same fucking sources. With dems it's trial lawyers, unions, Hollywood and George Soros. With repubs it's big biz, trade associations, pro-gun wackjobs, buh-jesus freaks and Sun Myung Moon.

 

Money politics is the problem. No, wait, without expensive TV time, there'd be apathy. Public funding? No wait, that'd bring in the same kinds of doofuses who ran for CA governor and might favor whichever party was in power at the time.

 

What we need is an avenging God to strike down fucking stone cold liars. I'd settle for that.

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Guest parallax

I don't think God has that much on his hands these days. You know, with the internet and all..

 

But anyway, i'm pretty much an idealist, but i do know that in the current situation, you're just trading Bush in for a lesser evil. Them both being bonesmen and all..

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