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Iran documentary.

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in case anyone has spotted a pattern here, Google has signed an agreement with the BBC to host a load of programmes. I must say this seems to have been quite a smart move judging from the number of links to BBC documentaries posted here. Over recent years there has been a drift for the BBC to go into coproductions with channels like Discovery, which (IMHO) has led to a tendency to overblown sensationalism and superficiality. But sometimes they do a good job.

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I´m brazilian. I must confess i thought Iran was something totaly different from what i saw in this documentary. A very cool work. It opened my mid... I´m justing thinking now about how blinds we can become with the massive manipulated news...

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Guest Sao_Bento
Over recent years there has been a drift for the BBC to go into coproductions with channels like Discovery, which (IMHO) has led to a tendency to overblown sensationalism and superficiality.

What? - you mean cavemen weren't blonde? Those lying bastards!!

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Guest Sao_Bento
You mean jesus-like blonde?

Yeah, pretty much, but they didn't have the same six pack abs.

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My fiance is Persian, so I felt particular interest in this subject...this was a really interesting documentary - I'm glad it portrays the Iranian people as people...as opposed to the nameless, militant islamist "aggressors" that my goverment makes them out to be.

 

I have met a number of my future family who live in both the States, and in Australia. They are truly lovely people.

 

The last time I saw them, some of his younger cousins asked me if I knew that most of the world hated America. I told them yes, but I felt compelled to ask them if they hated the government, or the people? They all responded that I was one of a small handful of Americans they had met, and they found me to be civilized and thoughtful...(they clearly don't know me at all.)

 

People everywhere are sold a bag of lies, and we end up hating each other for what?

 

Make brownies, not war.

Edited by Firebetty

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My fiance is Persian, so I felt particularly interest in this subject...this was a really interesting documentary - I'm glad it portrays the Iranian people as people...as opposed to the nameless, militant islamist "aggressors" that my goverment makes them out to be.

 

I have met a number of my future family who live in both the States, and in Australia. They are truly lovely people.

 

The last time I saw them, some of his younger cousins asked me if I knew that most of the world hated America. I told them yes, but I felt compelled to ask them if they hated the government, or the people? They all responded that I was one of a small handful of Americans they had met, and they found me to be civilized and thoughtful...(they clearly don't know me at all.)

 

People everywhere are sold a bag of lies, and we end up hating each other for what?

 

Make brownies, not war.

 

i think we (south americans) hate the government, and the people who support that government

right now, these days bush is in south america and were disturbs in every country he visit. that mean something.

anyway you are cool guys ;)

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i think we (south americans) hate the government, and the people who support that government

right now, these days bush is in south america and were disturbs in every country he visit. that mean something.

anyway you are cool guys ;)

 

I am really curious about specific reasons why people in other countries hate the US. I think many citizens here don't truly understand, myself included, where the anger comes from. We are told it's because "they hate us for our freedom." Which I take as complete bullshit. I know that my government is out for itself - not for it's people, and I know what the domestic policies are, but I only speak english, so I can't watch foreign media to get a true sense of what the Bush administration is doing in other countries...

 

Please elaborate on why you hate the US Government. (I'm being totally sincere- I really want to get an idea from an external source) This might shed some light for me to hear what is ACTUALLY going on in other countries.

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Guest Sao_Bento
I am really curious about specific reasons why people in other countries hate the US. I think many citizens here don't truly understand, myself included, where the anger comes from. We are told it's because "they hate us for our freedom." Which I take as complete bullshit. I know that my government is out for itself - not for it's people, and I know what the domestic policies are, but I only speak english, so I can't watch foreign media to get a true sense of what the Bush administration is doing in other countries...

 

Please elaborate on why you hate the US Government. (I'm being totally sincere- I really want to get an idea from an external source) This might shed some light for me to hear what is ACTUALLY going on in other countries.

From within the country, I can tell you that they (Bureau of Indian Affairs) were still forcibly sterilizing Native American women through the 1970's. I think that can garner a bit of resentment.

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Guest dumbo
Anti-Americanism in some form has existed across different American presidential administrations, though its severity may wax and wane considerably depending upon particular economic or geopolitical issues. George W. Bush's presidency, for instance, is widely seen as inducing a major increase in Anti-Americanism,[21]with the 2003 invasion of Iraq and controversies such as the Guantanamo Bay detainment camp and CIA "torture flights" badly affecting global opinions of the U.S.

have a read of this. it pretty much covers most of the subject...

 

and these for more info...

Hollywood and the Spread of Anti-Americanism

Understanding Anti-Americanism - University of Western Sydney

What the World Thinks of America - Poll by the BBC

America's Image Slips, But Allies Share U.S. Concerns Over Iran, Hamas

252-13.gif

Edited by dumbo

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I am really curious about specific reasons why people in other countries hate the US. I think many citizens here don't truly understand, myself included, where the anger comes from. We are told it's because "they hate us for our freedom." Which I take as complete bullshit. I know that my government is out for itself - not for it's people, and I know what the domestic policies are, but I only speak english, so I can't watch foreign media to get a true sense of what the Bush administration is doing in other countries...

 

Please elaborate on why you hate the US Government. (I'm being totally sincere- I really want to get an idea from an external source) This might shed some light for me to hear what is ACTUALLY going on in other countries.

 

A random example, Bush fingered the Kyoto protocol:

 

Kyoto_Protocol_participation_map_2005.png

 

List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions

 

USA 24.3 %

Europe 15.3 %

China 14.5 %

Russia 5.9 %

India 5.1 %

...

Edited by jan

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We are told it's because "they hate us for our freedom."

 

Lol

 

I always laugh (and cry) when i hear or read that sentence. I have some spare freedom laying around, if you are interested, i can get you some. No, no,

don't bother picking it up, i'll bring it all the way to your doorstep.

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It is a bit simplistic to say that Americans are ignorant of the world outside. I am sure your average Chinese person, or Russian is probably just as ignorant. Being part of a big country means that your news services are not really going to carry much international news as there is so much going on domestically. This would not matter if a country keeps itself to itself. But if a country takes it upon itself to sort out the world's problem, it should really understand what those problems are. Maybe those in power in the US are better informed than those they rule? It seems not (and I am not just refering to GWB)

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/17/opinion/...;pagewanted=all

 

Maybe there is no conspiracy to cause a middle eastern war between the Sunni and Shia factions, but, (with the exception of the current conference with Iraq's neighbours) the actions of the US seem to be leading that way, and it is not surprising if plenty in the region that see it as a conspiracy

http://www.aljazeera.com/muslims.net/content_fourteen.asp

 

You (in the US) are not well served by your media. When the current administration put forward the case for war against Iraq, did the press scrutinize the case with any enthusiasm. Even people like Al Franken said that he believed in the case for war! In the UK the debate was pretty vigourous (and we still stupidly ended up tagging along)

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the primary purpose of US foreign policy is to protect the business interests of the US' economic elite. and the US has a lot of business interests, in virtually every sector and industry, so it ends up sticking its finger in all sorts of places where it is uninvited, almost always shifting things to work in the aforementioned elites' favor. occasionally, the finger ends up in places where there is also a humanitarian mess that needs help, though this is more the exception than rule (think of all the atrocities going on where the US does jack shit about it-- it's because they aren't sitting on the world's second largest oil reserve). these cases of humanitarian intervention are really the only shit we americans are informed about by our news-info-entertainment industry, mostly because they generally do their job covering foreign policy by rewriting pentagon press releases like a third grader using an encyclopedia to write a report on reptiles.

 

US domestic policy, on the other hand is focused on pleasing its populace, just as a pluralist representational democracy should work... obviously if the voters don't like what you're doing, you're not re-elected. so most americans think that our government generally does what we want it to, and that it's scared to do shit that it knows we'll hate. iraqis and timorese and kenyans don't vote in our elections, so our elected officials don't give jack shit about not pillaging their natural resources/etc... though the american people have historically shown that they actually do give a shit about our goverment doing crummy things to other people and have taken action to halt our government from doing so. therefore, the government makes efforts to prevent the american people from becoming informed about all the slimy shit they be doin' outside our borders, because they'll have to stop if americans find out. it used to be the job of journalism to equalize that, but now they're busy putting together feature stories about britney spear's labia and putting ratings-grabbing redneck commentary on the air instead, because that industry is run by moneymen rather than journalists now.

 

the reason many people in other countries say they hate the US govt while simultameously saying they like american people is because they are aware of the stuff in the second paragraph. though there's a threshold of accountability to those people and in recent years there has been an increase in people in other countries that no longer indemnify the american people from the actions of its government. that kinda thing generally makesa country more prone to attacks on civilians (aka. terrorism). sO wHAT i'M sAyiNg GuiZe iS thAt wE LiKe tOTaLLy neEd tO LIkE kILL tHoSe oTHeR cOuNtRIes b4 tHEy teRrOr bOMb uS!!!!! thAt'S tHE onLY wAY tO LikE fIX THInGz!!!!

 

(that last little part was copy>pasted from an IM conversation i had with president bush)

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Lots of good stuff here...

I like Fred's ideas of packaging his "freedoms" and delivering them...

 

I guess that I knew a lot of what you guys are saying...(Kyoto, the commercial interests disrupting the private sector of many other countries, etc.)

 

But is this something that deeply affects people that live outside the US, or is your media feeding you an equally "spun" version of the truth?

 

Other than voting (which I do), writing to my congressperson and senators (which I do) and having HEATED debates with my family (which by crickey, I do) , what does the average american do to change things?

 

Sorry I'm so lazy and unable to figure this out for myself...You have no idea how busy I am, playing with my freedoms.

Edited by Firebetty

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the reason many people in other countries say they hate the US govt while simultameously saying they like american people is because they are aware of the stuff in the second paragraph. though there's a threshold of accountability to those people and in recent years there has been an increase in people in other countries that no longer indemnify the american people from the actions of its government. that kinda thing generally makesa country more prone to attacks on civilians (aka. terrorism). sO wHAT i'M sAyiNg GuiZe iS thAt wE LiKe tOTaLLy neEd tO LIkE kILL tHoSe oTHeR cOuNtRIes b4 tHEy teRrOr bOMb uS!!!!! thAt'S tHE onLY wAY tO LikE fIX THInGz!!!!

 

(that last little part was copy>pasted from an IM conversation i had with president bush)

 

exactly what i was thinking, i wish i had a better english to discuss in such intersting thread, but i have many many thoughs and it´s not easy for me to explain them all.

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Guest Sao_Bento
Other than voting (which I do), writing to my congressperson and senators (which I do) and having HEATED debates with my family (which by crickey, I do) , what does the average american do to change things?

Mostly, I just shoot guns into the air in celebration while yelling YYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!.

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Guest Sao_Bento

 

Blame America first, of course.

 

Cf

I think this discussion is a little more complex than that. It's not the Rush Limbaugh show and it's not about radical Islam. It's about the entire worlds perception of Americans and America. As a video editor, you have to see that that thing has as much thought behind it as the average sneeze, it's just looped up to fill time. It's not representative of the rest of the world. Only a small portion. People who live or travel outside of the CONUS regularly understand that there's a wide range of perception out there. It's not something you can scapegoat your way out of. Not everyone hates us. In fact, most people would rather live in the US where they have a chance at changing their lot in life. The deeper question is about US Foreign policy, which I think Jaan outlined pretty accurately. If your approach is to exploit everyone else for your own selfish gain, it's going to come back on you eventually. In the big picture, it's negative for all of us. As a staunch christian, I'd think you'd be quick to question wether making money at the greater expense of mankind was really the right way to go.

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Guest dumbo

that video is pretty worrying.

 

this documentary is pretty insightful and worth a watch.

Peace, Propaganda & the Promised Land (part 1)

Peace, Propaganda & the Promised Land (part 2)

 

Peace, Propaganda & the Promised Land provides a striking comparison of U.S. and international media coverage of the crisis in the Middle East. This pivotal documentary exposes how the foreign policy interests of American political elites--oil, and a need to have a secure military base in the region, among others--work in combination with Israeli public relations strategies to exercise a powerful influence over how news from the region is reported.

 

and noam chomsky is always writing about these topics too...

 

http://www.chomsky.info/articles.htm

 

Noam Chomsky is the Institute Professor Emeritus of linguistics at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. Chomsky is widely known for his political activism, and for his criticism of the foreign policy of the United States and other governments. His controversial bestseller 9-11, published in 2002, is an analysis of the World Trade Center attack that, while denouncing the atrocity of the event, traces its origins to the actions and power of the United States.

Edited by dumbo

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