splatcollision 0 Report post Posted March 28, 2007 Also, let me tell you something that is not getting the right exposure in the marketing docs: really improved, adaptive motion blur. AE so far was using 16 samples for MB, which as we all know, lead to very visible "steps". Now it will be able to calculate dynamically how many steps of MB it needs to produce super smooth looking MB. It can use hundreds of steps if needed, or less than the current 16 if that will be enough. And all these in the context of the same animation. Talk about a deep upgrade... ... Now that's cool. Please tell us more of these goodies! :H Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mylenium 0 Report post Posted March 28, 2007 ... Now that's cool. Please tell us more of these goodies! :H Pertaining to the MB: it is based on true oversampling and accumulation of all buffers, so it works on all plugins and their internal parameters. When in the past you had to use CC Force Motionblur or ReelSmartMotionBlur, you now literally get the same result without jumping hoops and it is correct. Even old plugins that never had any built-in motionblur, now correctly generate trails, including your favorite Trapcode toys, Knoll, Card Dance and whatnot. Mylenium Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mylenium 0 Report post Posted March 28, 2007 Do you have small children or are you just a masochist? Umm, I'm gay and single... Still, dunno if it's particularly masochist to get up early. As a countryboy I never knew it any other way and as someone with an eye and love for nature, it's actually quite nice seeing all those sunrises, morning mists and stuff. Plus it gives me the opportunity to leave work early in the afternoon and do my sports stuff like cycling a few extra kilometers... Mylenium Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Adolfo Rozenfeld 0 Report post Posted March 28, 2007 Can you believe I go to sleep when you wake up? I am just so used to work and play with things at night. I have to straighten my bad, big city boy habits Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Adolfo Rozenfeld 0 Report post Posted March 28, 2007 "Please tell us more of these goodies!" No problem, but I assure you that *some* of the features we're going through quickly are really spectacular. Particularly, 3D animators will open all kind of type explorations, if you really care about typography in motion. Just one tip: since the distances characters will have to go through will be very large, it can be too fast too soon. So it'll be important experimenting with more "atmospheric" paces. It's really stunning. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spritelyjim 0 Report post Posted March 28, 2007 (edited) It's not really IK, but rather a completely new development in terms of non-distorting image warping. I said the puppet tool was a solution to our nagging about IK, not IK itself. Unfortunately, somewhat referring to what Firebetty said, fundamental issues in AE are not likely to be addressed... probably ever. Things like actual IK and keyframe-able mask verticies would require actual hardcore surgery in AE. The nature of anchor points and layer structures would have to be changed, which would require every effect or tool that based itself on those structures to be changed as well. Instead we get band-aids like the puppet tool. I don't know I'd ever expect Adobe to work on these things, because AE is already so well established, and such a drastic change would be like moving from XP to Vista. I would argue that to get these fundamental issues changed, it would take someone who was writing a completely new piece of software. Like Motion.... Edited March 28, 2007 by spritelyjim Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Adolfo Rozenfeld 0 Report post Posted March 28, 2007 I'm afraid they change these fundamental issues and replace them with fundamental issues AE had solved for years. It's up to you which set of fundamental issues you pick. The Puppet tool is not a band-aid, I can tell you. And shape layers will create a before-and-after thing for motion graphics. They do change the whole layer structure: you'll realize that they're a complete new hierarchy model for the AE timeline. You can group objects and still control the children from the same timeline, etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spritelyjim 0 Report post Posted March 28, 2007 (edited) I'm afraid they change these fundamental issues and replace them with fundamental issues AE had solved for years.It's up to you which set of fundamental issues you pick. The Puppet tool is not a band-aid, I can tell you. And shape layers will create a before-and-after thing for motion graphics. They do change the whole layer structure: you'll realize that they're a complete new hierarchy model for the AE timeline. You can group objects and still control the children from the same timeline, etc. Yeah, I can see that maybe it just takes time to address all the issues. I just imagine that there are some issues that can't be addressed effectively in the time between one software version and the next, which makes them hard to address at all. I'll have to look at the shape layers thing more, though, that sounds interesting. Edited March 28, 2007 by spritelyjim Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Sao_Bento Report post Posted March 28, 2007 I'm afraid they change these fundamental issues and replace them with fundamental issues AE had solved for years.It's up to you which set of fundamental issues you pick. The Puppet tool is not a band-aid, I can tell you. And shape layers will create a before-and-after thing for motion graphics. They do change the whole layer structure: you'll realize that they're a complete new hierarchy model for the AE timeline. You can group objects and still control the children from the same timeline, etc. It seems like Adobe's inability to explain in detail what the new features are is a major obstacle this time around. There are a lot of places where Adobe folk are promising how cool the new features are, but no one's super-excited because the purpose or need for so many of them remains unclear from the marketing materials on the website. I love the quotes from the product managers too "it's great!" says the guy who "never imagined Photoshop would be used in feature film production." At this point my main reason to upgrade is Universal Binary support - oh, and that new Eraser tool in Illustrator ; ) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mylenium 0 Report post Posted March 28, 2007 Unfortunately, somewhat referring to what Firebetty said, fundamental issues in AE are not likely to be addressed... probably ever. Things like actual IK and keyframe-able mask verticies would require actual hardcore surgery in AE. The nature of anchor points and layer structures would have to be changed, which would require every effect or tool that based itself on those structures to be changed as well. Ah na. It wouldn't be that hardcore at all. It would be just a matter of decoupling certain operations from others and providing proper data structures. I don't know I'd ever expect Adobe to work on these things, because AE is already so well established, and such a drastic change would be like moving from XP to Vista. Na, wrong. Adobe did work on the motionblur, did they not? Wasn't the outcome of their work a coherent, unified motionblur architecture that even benefits old plugins and legacy functions? They are willing to change those things, it just takes time. The scope of the entire undertaking is much larger than it may look (code shared across various apps for instance), so understandably things progress a little more slowly perhaps. However, in the long run those things will be sorted out. On the other hand they simply have to work on new features to get attraction and customers. Fixing masks may be important, but would you pay an upgrade just for that? Simple business considerations will always get in the way of the greater good, as unfortunate that may be. Still, in the end it's not a uncommon problem: Do you keep your existing users happy or do you want to attract new ones? It's a dilemma, the only difference being how each manufacturer employs a different strategy upon it. I would argue that to get these fundamental issues changed, it would take someone who was writing a completely new piece of software. Like Motion.... Motion has not pushed out AE, or has it? It has it's own share of problems like the quirky keyframing system, rather hefty hardware requirements, inconsistent use and implementaion of the behaviors and a few other things. So why then has a "new" app failed to completely push out an "old" app and so many users of AE cling to it even if it's not easy to work smoothly with pre-CS3 versions on MacTel? Doesn't that prove something? If we transplanted your logic to the AE case, it could just happen the same - a fundamentally changed AE must not guarantee success at all, even if it takes care to not loose existing users by maintaining a level of legacy compatibility. I really can only chime in with Adolfo: What is considered a fundamental flaw or weakness and what not is very much subject to personal view. You see, I as a long-time 3D artist could easily say: "Go away with all your stinkin' 2D programs!" (regardless of who makes them), as many 3D programs employ much more modern paradigms in terms of what features they have and how usable those features are in production. But does it change anything in my usage of AE? No! I use AE because it serves my needs and even if it has problem areas, I'm able to circumvent those or I'm just lucky that I don't need those crooked features. You can do this dance just the other way around: Are Fusion, Shake and Nuke not fundamentally flawed because they don't have a single type tool that could even remotely rival the options you have in AE? Does the fact of those tools having better masking tools do anything for someone who does not need them and is dependent on having decent text tools? In the end it always comes down to that: no program can be the end-all, be-all tool and it's very much up to the user to pick the right one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mylenium 0 Report post Posted March 28, 2007 I just imagine that there are some issues that can't be addressed effectively in the time between one software version and the next, which makes them hard to address at all. That's assuming that the only focus of all development is always the next version and that's where you are most definitely wrong. While we are testing and discussing about CS3, behind the scenes CS4 is probably already beginning to emerge and other things such as probably a new vector mask engine, shared between Flash, AE, PPro and PS' animation part have been in long-time development from CS1. With low priority perhaps, but with a constant amount of work dedicated to it so it's ready to be implemented as a new core technology some day. You know, Adobe wouldn't work on Apollo for instance if they didn't think of it as perhaps the next generation of Flash, solving various issues users have been complaining about for years, also... I can only say again and again: Think long-term in those matters. Sure, it doesn't solve your immediate concerns, but you can be reasonably sure someone has a plan. Mylenium Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spritelyjim 0 Report post Posted March 28, 2007 (edited) (Mylenium's nice, long, detailed reply, exposing my complete ignorance of software developement.) Well, I guess I've been proved wrong. I learned something, though! Edited March 28, 2007 by spritelyjim Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SermonOfMockery 0 Report post Posted March 28, 2007 I love the quotes from the product managers too "it's great!" says the guy who "never imagined Photoshop would be used in feature film production." A+ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Adolfo Rozenfeld 0 Report post Posted March 28, 2007 I know this not saying much, but the people who did see the beast (Mylenium and I, AFAIK) are very excited about it. And believe me, Mylenium is really a demanding, tough person to please Another bit: the sampleImage() expression will be the Soundkeys of color/brightness driven animation. If that's not exciting... CS3 is in the best tradition of AE, in the sense that some of the mose useful features are in page 19 of the marketing docs Mind you, there are no real marketing docs yet. Come mid-april, all your questions will be answered. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeickholt 0 Report post Posted March 28, 2007 Come mid-april, all your questions will be answered. So it's going to come out in mid April? not July 1st? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yuppster 0 Report post Posted March 28, 2007 They do change the whole layer structure: you'll realize that they're a complete new hierarchy model for the AE timeline. You can group objects and still control the children from the same timeline, etc. Hmm can you explain this a bit further? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jonny 0 Report post Posted March 29, 2007 http://aftereffects.digitalmedianet.com/ar...e.jsp?id=116205 This review sheds a little more light on the new features. He's pretty stoked about it for whatever that's worth... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jonny 0 Report post Posted March 29, 2007 Oh yeah, the Production Bundle (AE included) will be a public beta April 16. http://aeportal.blogspot.com/2007/03/cs3-p...beta-april.html Count it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the_fuzz 0 Report post Posted March 29, 2007 (edited) is it 64 bit? i remember adobe stating that photoshop cs3 wouldn't be 64 bit, but that article states: "Ready for your Intel Mac firebreather, and 64-bit PC, the new gear is gonna smoke your old systems' performance." i was under the impression they weren't making that move yet. ***edit- nevermind, it was just stating it would run on a vista equipped pc. Edited March 29, 2007 by the_fuzz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
javier g 0 Report post Posted March 29, 2007 don´t get it, a beta in april?? i was hoping to see the final versions by then :s Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jonny 0 Report post Posted March 29, 2007 don´t get it, a beta in april?? i was hoping to see the final versions by then :s According to Amazon, the Production Bundle is to be released officially July 1. Some of the other bundles are to be released in April. Confusing, I know. http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Creative-Produ...4842&sr=8-5 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Sao_Bento Report post Posted March 29, 2007 http://aftereffects.digitalmedianet.com/ar...e.jsp?id=116205 This review sheds a little more light on the new features. He's pretty stoked about it for whatever that's worth... That site makes me want to gouge my eyes out. Can't anyone who works there see how bad it looks? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeickholt 0 Report post Posted March 29, 2007 is it 64 bit? i remember adobe stating that photoshop cs3 wouldn't be 64 bit, but that article states: i was under the impression they weren't making that move yet. ***edit- nevermind, it was just stating it would run on a vista equipped pc. Excuse my ignorance on this subject, but does that mean it will run x2 as fast on a 64 bit vista pc? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
javier g 0 Report post Posted March 29, 2007 That site makes me want to gouge my eyes out. Can't anyone who works there see how bad it looks? a little fireworks cs3 would do it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Adolfo Rozenfeld 0 Report post Posted March 29, 2007 "Excuse my ignorance on this subject, but does that mean it will run x2 as fast on a 64 bit vista pc?" Absolutely not. A single 64-bit application can use more memory. That's about it. Some applications also gain a 15-20 per cent speed advantage. AE CS3 will use more memory, by launching background processes that will each render one frame simultaneously (one for each core in your machine). It's transparent to the user: you only have to turn it on, and it will work on 32 or 64 bit machines. So if you have 8 GB of RAM and a Quad core machine, it'll really take advantage of it. It's not a 64 bit app, and there isn't an imprerious need for it yet. Believe me: simulataneous multprocessing will do much more for speed than throwing bits Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
