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Jonny

Apple announces Motion 3

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Guest Sao_Bento
it's the best part of free markets... THE INVISIBLE HAND!

For some reason, I thought that you were talking about the mafia at first, but I guess that would be the "black hand".

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I agree about the duality of using both apps. This demo made me finally think about poking into a little Motion.

 

I'm excited by the FCP studio update in general. 'Color' Looks sick as hell.

 

Competition is def key. I'm almost bummed about AE CS3. AND THAT MAKES NO SENSE.

But it's the seed of doubt that's been planted in me by Adobe, unfortunately. It's hard to explain, but I feel like they're still

crapping out features that eclipse real needs of everyday users.

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Guest Sao_Bento
I'm almost bummed about AE CS3.

 

That's where the competition would have come in handy. I imagine Adobe would have got their UB versions out a hell of a lot sooner if they were going to lose their market share to someone else.

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I don't know. I think it can compete with AE on some jobs. The 3D I feel is done pretty cool. AE never had the sense of being 3D. I also love the Real Time quality of Motion where you can just have it playing or looping and tweak things without always having to hit ram preview or render. I can see they took a lot of liberties by wording things the Apple way. They always seems to mess with the stand terminology to suit themseleves. I mean they put and "i" infront of everything! I have been hating Adobe lately, they just don't seem to be innovating in terms of interface or workflowthey just want to do the same thing Apple is doing, bundling AE with Premiere! Just my 2 cents. I would say it really isn't a question of can Motion compete but a question of starting to work with jobs in Motion vs. After Effects. AE has been the goto to app. and Motion isn't a stand alone type deal either. I say version 4 of motion will start to compete or the next Shake incarnition. Color does look sic! Tools liek these just start to take away from After Effects artist in that Editors will start to do things in Motion and then AE artist will have to rebuild it.

Edited by pixel_pimp

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_hand

 

The invisible hand is a metaphor coined by Adam Smith to illustrate how those who seek wealth by following their individual self-interest, inadvertently stimulate the economy and assist society as a whole. In the general opinion, in The Wealth of Nations and other writings, Smith claims that, in capitalism, an individual pursuing his own good tends also to promote the good of his community, through a principle that he called “the invisible hand” of the market, which ensures that those activities most beneficial and efficient will naturally be those that are most profitable. The specific mechanism for this, Smith saw as being the free price system.

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Guest Sao_Bento
Adam Smith, that hack, he cribbed off Cantillon.

If only it was all for the greater good. It's also the invisible hand that takes 25% of your plane fare to pay to land it's corporate jet (which is also invisible, I assume).

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070415/ap_on_.../ticket_taxes_6

 

then again - looking at the Red camera and the potential of a smaller, cheaper version, thank god for millionaires (Jim Jannard, in this case).

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Too bad they can't get the terminology right - calling motion tracking "Match Moving" is a super-amatuer blunder that damages their credibility. Maybe they're using the same exec recruiters as Adobe now.

 

 

What do you consider Match Moving? Looks like it to me here in Vegas.

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Guest Sao_Bento
What do you consider Match Moving? Looks like it to me here in Vegas.

 

It's not like I'm making this shit up. It's a widely known industry term that already means something entirely different from what Apple calls "match moving" in their marketing.

 

"Match moving" means matching a virtual camera to plate. Actual Match Moving software like Syntheyes, PFmatch, etc. analyze photographed plate footage to determine the characteristics and placement of the camera that photographed it. Then they create a matching virtual camera, thus allowing you to seamlessly match other objects into the scene (with full matching perspective).

Apples "Match Moving" is actually what's commonly known as "motion tracking", tracking a feature in a photographed plate, then applying 2D values to another 2D layer.

 

If you need a more in-depth description, read this:

http://www.amazon.com/Matchmoving-Invisibl...3510&sr=8-1

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Not disagreeing with anyone, but in the once mighty Commotion after something was tracked they used the terms "Match move" to have a layer follow the track or "Stabilize" to have a layer go opposite from the track.

 

I tend to think that "Match Move" and "Motion Tracking" are not mutually exclusive. I think a track is a track. Then what you DO with that data whether in 2D or 3D is is what you want to call it.

 

I'm guessing Apple used "Match Move" instead of tracking because since they already have a somewhat automated stabilization function, they want to differentiate their "Match Moving" function from it.

 

I gotta say that Motion is really pimp now (although the layers do confuse me). But as I talked about with Sao in another thread, the fact that "Color", FCP, and node based compositing (Shake) are not built into one app (ala *smoke and Avid DS) is a deal killer for me. Switching between apps and having multiple projects and files spread out does not a pro system make.

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I gotta say that Motion is really pimp now (although the layers do confuse me). But as I talked about with Sao in another thread, the fact that "Color", FCP, and node based compositing (Shake) are not built into one app (ala *smoke and Avid DS) is a deal killer for me. Switching between apps and having multiple projects and files spread out does not a pro system make.

Really?! I liked that they were separate, but integrated. But I am most definitely not an editor... I'm just a guy who hates bloated software. I'll have to try it before I commit to an opinion though. <_<

 

-m

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Really?! I liked that they were separate, but integrated. But I am most definitely not an editor... I'm just a guy who hates bloated software. I'll have to try it before I commit to an opinion though. <_<

 

-m

 

To me bloated is a product of poor development and coding. For example in the DS, I obviously can edit a spot. Now to do "online" stuff to it, I turn a clip into a container. Inside that container I have a full node tree (with great color correction abilities) inside every single clip. Or I can use the layer based workflow. Each "mode" like editing, compositing, paint, 3D graphics, audio are all in their own layout. And each layout feels like a separate app, but they are all intertwined beautifully under one project with one archive needed. Once you use a system that is seamlessly integrated while still being way faster and smoother than FCP, I doubt you would have any trouble with integration. IMO.

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There's an article by appleinsider about the prores 422 codec

link

What's not clear is can you capture something with this codec without the new aja hardware?

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Guest Sao_Bento
There's an article by appleinsider about the prores 422 codec

link

What's not clear is can you capture something with this codec without the new aja hardware?

The word is that it's a DCT based much like Avid's HD codec with similar data rates and file sizes.

There's been so much mixing of the RED workflow with FCP 6 that people were saying that ProRes was wavelet based (which it is not).

I'd guess that capturing to it will require hardware support (how else would you capture - firewire?).

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The word is that it's a DCT based much like Avid's HD codec with similar data rates and file sizes.

There's been so much mixing of the RED workflow with FCP 6 that people were saying that ProRes was wavelet based (which it is not).

I'd guess that capturing to it will require hardware support (how else would you capture - firewire?).

 

yeah I dunno about this. all I got from the people over at the apple booth was the run around. I asked why they are only demoing the mix format RT functions w/ 2 compressed formats (DVCproHD & DV), why they didnt throw in some uncompressed & tga sequences. and then the guy says "well we have all that on the machines." I'm like..."aaannnnd???" then they were saying how the pro res format is such a space saver and I asked well how does it stack up next to DVCpro HD & he gives me figures for uncompressed VS pro res. So I asked him again what are the figures for 1 minute of pro res Vs 1 min of DVC pro HD & he basically said I don't know. So I went to another guy who also gave me the run around saying how "welll when new technologies come out they have to be tested & yadda yadda yadda... "although I have to say the motion tracker in motion is pretty sweet.

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There's an article by appleinsider about the prores 422 codec

link

What's not clear is can you capture something with this codec without the new aja hardware?

 

probably not. it seems like it's initially meant to be a way to take various fatpipe HD formats and easily create decent-quality proxies for an offline edit... which is a really good move on their part because there are gonna be so many diff HD acquisition codecs springing up in the next few years that this will be a kinda "guarantee" that yopu can edit it in realtime on fcp with just a simple procedure. and they seem to imply that it's a good enough format to just use for the rest of the workflow.

Edited by jaan

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Guest Sao_Bento
probably not. it seems like it's initially meant to be a way to take various fatpipe HD formats and easily create decent-quality proxies for an offline edit... which is a really good move on their part because there are gonna be so many diff HD acquisition codecs springing up in the next few years that this will be a kinda "guarantee" that yopu can edit it in realtime on fcp with just a simple procedure. and they seem to imply that it's a good enough format to just use for the rest of the workflow.

They constantly refer it it as a "mastering codec". The proof is supposed to be that you can't see a difference between 10th generation ProRes and uncompressed. I say drop it in a timeline, and do a difference mode on top of itself - you'll see the differences real quick.

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I'm pleased Motion has stepped up to the plate and adopted 3D. I've downloaded the beta of AE CS3 and as soon as my latest project is complete, I'll install it and give it a try.

 

I like the fact that Final Cut Studio is made up of separate apps - you want to edit? Go edit. You want to colour correct? Go colour correct - and if you want to do it all, they integrate very well. I think it makes the whole approach less daunting for say first time / new users.

 

There's a good seminar over at apple.com on Motion and After Effects integration, which i found useful... I'll dig out the link and post it here...

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