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Bokeh

Folders in the After Effects timeline

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Can anyone who has used After Effects CS3 tell me if they have implemented folders in the After Effects timeline yet? I did not see it listed in the "what's new" of the release notes pdf, but I have not used CS3 myself yet.

 

Am I the only person who thinks this feature is kind of over-due? Photoshop and Flash both have this, both are now owned by Adobe. I sent them a feature request email but I doubt that will ever be read by human eyes.

 

Every so often when I am working in a comp where I start to have piles and piles of layers that I would like to keep in the same comp (situations where pre-comping would not neccesarily make things easier) I find myself wishing for timeline folders.

Edited by Bokeh

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Am I the only person who thinks this feature is kind of over-due? Photoshop and Flash both have this, both are now owned by Adobe. I sent them a feature request email but I doubt that will ever be read by human eyes.

I can assure you that you are one of MANY who daydream about this 101 feature.

 

-m

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Can anyone who has used After Effects CS3 tell me if they have implemented folders in the After Effects timeline yet? I did not see it listed in the "what's new" of the release notes pdf, but I have not used CS3 myself yet.

 

Am I the only person who thinks this feature is kind of over-due? Photoshop and Flash both have this, both are now owned by Adobe. I sent them a feature request email but I doubt that will ever be read by human eyes.

 

Every so often when I am working in a comp where I start to have piles and piles of layers that I would like to keep in the same comp (situations where pre-comping would not neccesarily make things easier) I find myself wishing for timeline folders.

 

I feel your pain, and unfortunately they still have not implemented this–to my knowledge. Folders could work wonders in After Effects, and it's not like implementing them is going to cause mass pandemonium amongst long time users. I haven't found folders at all in the CS3 Beta, but I guess let's keep our fingers crossed for good measure? (The final version still hasn't been released yet)

 

EDIT: check out this thread on Adobe's forums... http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/webforums/for...hreadid=1268203

Edited by JonAndesign

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I feel your pain, and unfortunately they still have not implemented this–to my knowledge. Folders could work wonders in After Effects, and it's not like implementing them is going to cause mass pandemonium amongst long time users. I haven't found folders at all in the CS3 Beta, but I guess let's keep our fingers crossed for good measure? (The final version still hasn't been released yet)

 

EDIT: check out this thread on Adobe's forums... http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/webforums/for...hreadid=1268203

Thanks for that link! I am going to register for their forums and try to add to that thread.

 

Personally, after reading some of the points they discuss in there, I would be sooper happy if they simply copied flash's timeline folder implementation for now. You take 30 consecutive layers, make a folder, now those 30 consecutive layers only take up the space of one layer. That would be fantastic. Making un-twirlable precomps is something they could save for a future version.

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Is there any other third party support for this? A plugin would be nice, I don't know how many people here have had to deal with the " render out the same channel id with 50 slight color variations" game, folder would help so much

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Dude I have been asking them for Folder in the Timeline for Years! I guess they only add big Qhee Whiz Features they have no interest in improving UI effectiveness or usability! I also think being able to assign your own keyboard shortcuts would be great and creating your own palettes like C4D allows. I think AE CS3 is pretty weak! It doesn't even feel much faster. I also wise they bring back the old timeline/f-curve. Seeing keyframes and being able to tweak the velocity curve was much better, or add on option to do an overlay of the keyframes. I played with motion 3. and it seems very Candy at first but I think if I did work with it I could get use to it. I love hitting the space bar and having things play. Not have to always ram preview.

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I also wise they bring back the old timeline/f-curve. Seeing keyframes and being able to tweak the velocity curve was much better, or add on option to do an overlay of the keyframes.

 

you are joking right? i can't believe you actually prefer using a velocity graph over a value graph. additionally, the velocity graph is still there, you can toggle between velocity and value curves with the option of overlaying one another.

 

-M

Edited by 26thfloor

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Yeah I do. I just don't dig adobes graph curve (they dumb it down to much). Before you could have several layers and there keyframes twirled down and then on one property tweak the curve in relation to the layer of the other layers keyframes. It takes a lot of prep to get it to display info the way I like and no keyboard short cuts to quicken the process. Also the graph doesn't have an Auto Relative function to do super smooth moves. I think if the graph editor were to say twirl down for just it's own layer(s) and not the whole time line would be dope. So you could display the graph for two separate layers in the time and us the solo property for each say rotation on layer 1 and position on layer 2. Adobe doesn't give you the flex to do things like that custom. I guess it comes down to being old and not liking change. I never understood why; when I was 23 and the 30 year old guys complained when shit got changed in photoshop and illustrator, now I am the old 30 year old guy! Oh well! Infini-D still had the best curves editor anyway!!!

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i do agree that AE's f-curve is wack beyond belief. it is definately vanilla. i prefer softimages, back when it was softimage, which i guess would be XSI now adays.

 

just a heads up but you can display graphs for two seperate layers w/ only two specific properties in the timeline (or whatever combination you care). you know that little graph next to each property upon twirling down of a layer, if you toggle that on, it will show that property in the graph editor even if the layer is not selected. this is part of your "graph editor set" you can also tell the graph editor to only show those properties which are part of your "graph editor set". enjoy

 

-M

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I haven't found folders at all in the CS3 Beta, but I guess let's keep our fingers crossed for good measure? (The final version still hasn't been released yet)

 

Guys: While no official date has been announced yet, several online stores are showing the Adobe video apps as available sometime in July.

What I mean is, the AE CS3 Public Preview is not a "beta" in the conventional sense. It is way past the feature-complete and UI-freeze stages. It's safe to assume there must be people wrapping boxes somewhere :)

 

The AE team is absolutely aware that most users would like to have some sort of organizational folder structure. Some of us would like something deeper than that (ie, access to nested layers by twirling pre-comps in the main timeline), while others would be perfectly happy just with the ability to organize layers in folders. But in any case, never assume something is "easy" to implement. Flash is a completely different creature from AE. This feature (or it's more sophisticated cousin) will be in AE, eventually.

 

BTW, I can guarantee there are humans on the other side of the line, reading the feature requests you send.

If you want something closer to a "receipt" for your request, post it in the Labs forum :)

Edited by arozenfeld

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Lately I would have killed for a way to advance all the layers and keyframes in the timeline (like you can by pressing F5 in flash) such a pain when you want to slow a section down having to search through all the layers and move keyframes forward.

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Lately I would have killed for a way to advance all the layers and keyframes in the timeline (like you can by pressing F5 in flash) such a pain when you want to slow a section down having to search through all the layers and move keyframes forward.

You may already know this, but if you Time Remap a Comp it essentially does exactly that. There's no choppiness like when you time remap footage, it's the same as moving your keyframes around but it takes far less time.

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Adolfo, they've been hearing this for years, and yet they've released three full-point updates without coming close to implementing it. They may well be listening, but if ever a development team has lost my faith that they can go beyond listening and actually put solutions in play, it's this one. Of course they may want to do more ambitious things, but they're held back by budget constraints. Either way, it's just not getting done. On the other hand, Guillermo Barros Schelotto is leaving Boca to play in the USA, so it's possible for revolutionary things to happen that utterly shock you--hopefully it's not after the app is 32 years old and still wearing the same a haircut from 1987.

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Guest Sao_Bento
Commotion added layer folders in their last release! :) SIX YEARS AGO :blink:

Of course this has been in Motion from the beginning. I think the key to AE's success will be to retain precomping while adding folders. They should behave the same way, but for project organization, you still need the ability to pre-comp. Motion's layer folders but lack of a higher, project level method for organization make working with it more akin to Flame / Quantel - You pretty much build one shot at a time. Each project file is a single shot rather than a collection of elements that can be combined for maximum flexibility. This is the limiting functionality that results in Motion being more heavily associated with video editors than motion graphics designers.

 

P.S. It would also be nice if the installer didn't make you quit your browser.

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Adolfo, they've been hearing this for years, and yet they've released three full-point updates without coming close to implementing it. They may well be listening, but if ever a development team has lost my faith that they can go beyond listening and actually put solutions in play, it's this one. Of course they may want to do more ambitious things, but they're held back by budget constraints. Either way, it's just not getting done. On the other hand, Guillermo Barros Schelotto is leaving Boca to play in the USA, so it's possible for revolutionary things to happen that utterly shock you--hopefully it's not after the app is 32 years old and still wearing the same a haircut from 1987.

 

maybe messi will play in USA before ae folders are implemented

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Guys: I

I am just offering myself as a messenger here.

If you think that could be useful or valuable, I will be happy to keep doing it.

When you express your frustration about this or that, please remember that I am not an Adobe employee here and that I can't do anything useful with that frustration. With specific criticism, I can do much more. It's not good for my health, though :)

 

All the feedback about organizational layer folders is now tracked properly, again, even if it is not the solution that I (and many others) would prefer.

 

BTW, If my beloved Huracán could make it again to Argentina's first division this week, anything can happen!

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Guys: I

I am just offering myself as a messenger here.

If you think that could be useful or valuable, I will be happy to keep doing it.

When you express your frustration about this or that, please remember that I am not an Adobe employee here and that I can't do anything useful with that frustration. With specific criticism, I can do much more. It's not good for my health, though :)

 

All the feedback about organizational layer folders is now tracked properly, again, even if it is not the solution that I (and many others) would prefer.

 

BTW, If my beloved Huracán could make it again to Argentina's first division this week, anything can happen!

 

are you from argentina????

 

un hincha de huracan en mograph! esto es historico

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Guest Sao_Bento
I am no programmer but is folders in the timeline something that could be written in using the SDK?

I believe the said SDK is a plug-in SDK, not something that will let you re-arrange the render pipeline or core elements of how the app works.

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I believe the said SDK is a plug-in SDK, not something that will let you re-arrange the render pipeline or core elements of how the app works.

 

I think hypothetically you could write a plugin that was essentially, your very own timeline window, you would just need to wire it up to all the same functions the current timeline performs. Of course, this would probably be an huge pain to do and totally inefficient. If you had the ability to do that you might as well write your own competing app.

 

Adolfo, they've been hearing this for years, and yet they've released three full-point updates without coming close to implementing it. They may well be listening, but if ever a development team has lost my faith that they can go beyond listening and actually put solutions in play, it's this one.

 

I still have a little hopeful twinkle in my eye. At least for the folders.

 

...The AE team is absolutely aware that most users would like to have some sort of organizational folder structure. Some of us would like something deeper than that (ie, access to nested layers by twirling pre-comps in the main timeline), while others would be perfectly happy just with the ability to organize layers in folders. But in any case, never assume something is "easy" to implement. Flash is a completely different creature from AE. This feature (or it's more sophisticated cousin) will be in AE, eventually...
...All the feedback about organizational layer folders is now tracked properly, again, even if it is not the solution that I (and many others) would prefer...

 

I've noted that you have been kind of negative about this, and seem to be looking at it as "if they put folders in the way you want, I won't get my precomp ubertwirl thing". I just want to say that I think both features can live together peacefully in a happy shining world of smiling AE user faces. It's just that one is simpler to implement than the other. And in my opinion, it is more useful because in many situations it would preclude the need for precomping, especially if the folders could be locked.

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As a motion graphics professional I have to say there is noting much that gets me excited about the new version. The new features are more directed towards the ambitious hobbyist rather than people who want to use it as a high-end compositing and vfx solution (Maybe with the exception of Intel support and proper color management).

There is so much stuff that I don't quite understand, for instance why they didn't implement Photoshop layer styles as additional plugins and instead made things more complicated by introducing them as a special dropdown in there layers options. Doesn't make any sense.

Why is it so hard to give us mask handles that have a reasonable size (or at least can be sized to personal taste) and masks that are not deselected whenever you accidentaly click on the wrong spot. I don't know how many times I have moved a layer instead of the leyers mask because i didnt click one of the masks points before I tried to rectangle select some points. How about per-point mask feathering and how about locking certain attributes of a layer instead of the whole thing.

The folders thing is also a very nice concept, even though I didn't think of this before. Could be used to limit adjustment layers to a certain set of layers (to name one).

Instead we get a brainstorm tool (kinda nice gadget, but I rather tweak the FX settings myself, plus it's cluttering the interface), a puppet tool (am I the only one who thinks puppet tool animations look retarded?), a bridge to Photoshops vanishing tool (Sorry, I rather use C4D for camera projection) and shape layers (might be useful even though I wasn't missing them before).

I really don't know where they are going with this current release. Pro market? Advanced amateur? Both?

 

Too bad there is really no alternative to AE for now because I would really like to work with something that is truly dedicated to the pro market.

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