Folders in the After Effects timeline

[Adolfo Rozenfeld 0]

For a great analysis of AE's shortcomings as a compositing tool, and its' often forgotten strengths, I recommend reading the Mythbusting entries in Mark Christiansen's blog.

[bart 0]

AE has just about abandoned compositers. They've gotten behind on masks, motion, 3d camera and about 2 dozen

other things. If they start working on a nodes program that will be it before anything else gets attention, so I hope you're right.

 

 

Bart: the howls for nodes in AE don't come from motion graphics designers but mostly from the VFX people.

Despite what the cliche may suggest, AE is huge in the film effects industry. For example, it was used prominently in the movie that won the fx academy award this year These guys want nodes in AE vert badly. They already have them in Nuke, Shake, etc. but they want nodes interacting with the AE timeline animation model. That would make AE very hard to beat.

 

I believe we motion graphics artists would find them very useful afterwards. Bear in mind expressions and 3D were originally requested more by compositing guys than designers.

[C.Smith 0]

Chris: There's also this John Knoll guy, who was last seen holding a golden statue somewhere in Los Angeles

 

Oh, yes John Knoll. But of course it was he and Stu (and some others) who were the Rebel Mac unit at ILM. Kudos to them for sure.

[C.Smith 0]

The whole wide world . . . Wow! I wonder why those stupid mograph artists still use after effects.

 

....because mograph is best done in AE? I am having a hard time seeing what your point is. Maybe you didn't read my post from left to right.

 

A top composting firm in our little town works exclusively in Shake. I'll inform them that they don't know what they're doing.

 

Why? Shake is one of the best compositors there is. Once again, you are agreeing with my points so your deep sarcasm is confusing.

 

Outside of the exceptions to the rule. Generally speaking great VFX compositors like Shake, Nuke, DS, Inferno, and Fusion(or whatever) are used on the most complex of FX shots.

 

AND...

 

Generally speaking AE is used by the motion graphics industry the most and is generally not used for FX composites that would normally be extremely complex.

 

You stated the opposite from what is "normal" by alluding to node trees being more out of control at higher complexities than precomps. Since I have never heard anyone share this opinion, I found it startling.

 

Then you go on to preach to us about your knowledge of how apps are used while barley even knowing their names ("Fusion or whatever") and acting like Shake is new ("Now there is SHAKE") even though it's been around since the mid 90's since Nothing Real made it in command line form.

 

I am not belittling any of the programs at all, only pointing out where they are weak next to different types of compositors. So please, for the love of god, don't wake up your friend in your little town and tell him to stop using Shake. Although you may want to inform him that it will no longer exist soon which I personally find extremely sad since I spent several years with Shake myself and loved every second of it.

[govinda 0]

As to whether compositing is the proper thing to talk about in a motion graphics forum, I think it's long past obvious that motion graphics is edging into the world of film animation and film vfx. Things like psyop's Happiness Factory and the Honda Hate Something from two years ago were done using techniques not fully covered in the Trish & Chris Meyers books. Plus the film/tv effects people and the Pixar people are simply way ahead of us in terms of technique. They know things we don't, and we can learn a lot from them even if we're working on a local car spot. Light-wrap, multipass layering of ambient occlusion, reflection passes, motion tracking...

[C.Smith 0]

As to whether compositing is the proper thing to talk about in a motion graphics forum, I think it's long past obvious that motion graphics is edging into the world of film animation and film vfx. Things like psyop's Happiness Factory and the Honda Hate Something from two years ago were done using techniques not fully covered in the Trish & Chris Meyers books. Plus the film/tv effects people and the Pixar people are simply way ahead of us in terms of technique. They know things we don't, and we can learn a lot from them even if we're working on a local car spot. Light-wrap, multipass layering of ambient occlusion, reflection passes, motion tracking...

 

Trudat. VFX is not mutually exclusive with mograph. Mograph is the art of design and concept in motion despite what method you may use. One of those methods may be VFX others may be stop motion, animated Illustrator comps or whatever. This forum is about art, design, and concept so talking about VFX as one of the styles is certainly applicable. Obviously folks around here aren't usually going to be in the mindset to nerd out over the same things as VFXTalk.com type people (although I do), but it doesn't mean it shouldn't be discussed.

 

We talk about technical C4D shit all the time and no one ever bitches to us to take it over to CGTalk.

 

Besides, I'd say half of this forum is off-topic anyways

[tomcat 0]

Nobody complained that a compositing thread is improper

The dude with the antlers started attacking a guy for saying he liked nodes for compositing but not for motion graphics, so the guy explained AE beat out all the nodes programs, which seemed like a decent point. I'm trying to figure out why the dude with the antlers is on such a rant.

I don't think anyone cares if compositers have a thread as long as they can take a difference of opinion without going ballistic.

[Colin@movecraft 0]

As to whether compositing is the proper thing to talk about in a motion graphics forum, I think it's long past obvious that motion graphics is edging into the world of film animation and film vfx. Things like psyop's Happiness Factory and the Honda Hate Something from two years ago were done using techniques not fully covered in the Trish & Chris Meyers books. Plus the film/tv effects people and the Pixar people are simply way ahead of us in terms of technique. They know things we don't, and we can learn a lot from them even if we're working on a local car spot. Light-wrap, multipass layering of ambient occlusion, reflection passes, motion tracking...

 

Couldn't possibly agree with this post more.

 

also.. stop the pain... Different tools for different jobs... I believe Mark Christensen said that the timeline is the killer app in AE and I think he's right. It's the focus of the program. It would be wicked cool to somehow switch back and forth between nodes and timeline/precomp though. It would feel kind of like sharing camera data between c4d/AE...

[Guest Sao_Bento]

It would be wicked cool to somehow switch back and forth between nodes and timeline/precomp though. It would feel kind of like sharing camera data between c4d/AE...

Isn't that how Combustion worked?

[Adolfo Rozenfeld 0]

Isn't that how Combustion worked?

 

The problem with Combustion is "middle of the roadness".

Its' nodal implementation is not as deep as Shake's. Its' timeline implementation is not as good as AE's.

Of course there are many good or even terrific things in Combustion. But IMO the usual suspects (Shake, Nuke, etc) beat it as a compositor and AE runs circles around it for motion graphics.

[C.Smith 0]

I'm trying to figure out why the dude with the antlers is on such a rant.

 

[troyA 0]

 

Man, that is awesome. "Dude with antlers" makes me laugh. But I do agree with Mr. Smith. But Shake going away? How deep is the cave I've been living in? Is that for sure?

[C.Smith 0]

Man, that is awesome. "Dude with antlers" makes me laugh. But I do agree with Mr. Smith. But Shake going away? How deep is the cave I've been living in? Is that for sure?

 

 

From Wikipedia Shake entry

 

...Apple also announced that they would end support for Shake, as they begin work on the next-generation software, expected to be known as codename Phenomenon [7] Existing maintenance program subscribers had the option to license the Shake source code for $50,000 USD....

[Guest Sao_Bento]

The problem with Combustion is "middle of the roadness".

Its' nodal implementation is not as deep as Shake's. Its' timeline implementation is not as good as AE's.

Of course there are many good or even terrific things in Combustion. But IMO the usual suspects (Shake, Nuke, etc) beat it as a compositor and AE runs circles around it for motion graphics.

Yes to all those things, but isn't it an example of a single application utilizing both nodal and timeline based methods? - that's what I was getting at. (they also have realtime feedback from color curves adjustments)

In the end, it's about having a super-flexible render pipeline without stepping on your own toes in the process. Seems like that should be feasible in this day and age.

[Adolfo Rozenfeld 0]

Yes to all those things, but isn't it an example of a single application utilizing both nodal and timeline based methods? - that's what I was getting at. (they also have realtime feedback from color curves adjustments)

 

 

Yes, you're right in that regard. It's just that neither nodes nor timeline in Combustion are best of breed, I guess.

About the real time curves adjustments (and CC as a whole), agreed. There are several impressive things in Combustion.

[bart 0]

Combustion has drop dead awesome controls for qualities. Even the brush adjustments.

Yes, you're right in that regard. It's just that neither nodes nor timeline in Combustion are best of breed, I guess.

About the real time curves adjustments (and CC as a whole), agreed. There are several impressive things in Combustion.