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I was thinking of more mograph-style camera moves, not limited by physical reality, using several rapid camera moves instead of cuts.

 

Yes, I like it. Great point. Let me wrap my head around it.

 

At first I thought you meant more cams to refine the path between the Start and End, but now I see you mean the common camera animation in mograph where it flies to one area to view something, then stall, then take off to another part of space to view something else, etc. which totally makes sense to make.

 

I would leave Easycam the way it is, but make a sister cam system that is built for mograph specifically. The only downside is having so many cams in the camera list. I know I don't HAVE to have cams, but to me looking thru a cam while planning a shot is the most intuitive thing to do. I think what I'll do is take it down to 2 cams total then. So you would use a "Framing cam" to set waypoints. Then the Render out cam would fly that path. I can set waypoints by leaving nulls in each spot. But I would need to deal with the velocity curve between waypoints so there is full controll for each camera stopping point.

 

 

 

Cool. I see another good project. Thanks for the ideas.

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Cool. I see another good project. Thanks for the ideas.

very happy to have ideas... just glad I don't have to code them. The framing cam that you use to set null positions with sounds like a good idea. Would it be a good idea to be able to set the actual frames where the moving cam hits the nulls, rather than doing it via setting an overall time? Might help to synchronize the camera moves with other animation.

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very happy to have ideas... just glad I don't have to code them. The framing cam that you use to set null positions with sounds like a good idea. Would it be a good idea to be able to set the actual frames where the moving cam hits the nulls, rather than doing it via setting an overall time? Might help to synchronize the camera moves with other animation.

 

Here are my thoughts on "MoCam". It would be based on 10 waypoints. Each waypoint would have it's on position, rotation, focal length, focus distance, duration, hold time, velocity curve, and possibly it's own path bend.

 

So the AM would be something like:

 

WAYPOINT SETTINGS

PulldownMenu to select waypoint (from 10 available)

 

PER WAYPOINT PARAMETERS:

UnlockCam (cam's would be locked to the previous waypoint until freed)

Focal length

FocusDistance

Duration

HoldTime (Once the cam makes it's full journey this would be an option for it to stay put until it's time to go on)

Timing Curve (normalized velocity graph)

CameraBanking (same as changing the B rotation, but with an easy to grab slider)

 

GLOBAL VIBRATION

Same parameters as Easycam

 

Adding a bend to each waypoint may make it pretty bloated. I'm sure there is some genius math I can do to create my path bends but for now I use a target tag to point from the path start to the path end. Then use a distance node to place a null halfway between those points. Then use a point node to place the middle spline point relative to this centered null.

 

I'll try it, but that's 30 added objects right there just for a path bend. But then again, it's not using geometry so it may not be a big deal.

 

Would it be a good idea to be able to set the actual frames where the moving cam hits the nulls, rather than doing it via setting an overall time?

 

Good note. If there were absolute frame times for each waypoint it would definitely be easier to sync like you said, I just have to wrap my brain around what that will do to a "Hold" function and also creating barriers between waypoint frame selections. Meaning I can't have waypoint 5, for example, having an earlier frame number than 4.

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Adding a bend to each waypoint may make it pretty bloated. I'm sure there is some genius math I can do to create my path bends but for now I use a target tag to point from the path start to the path end. Then use a distance node to place a null halfway between those points. Then use a point node to place the middle spline point relative to this centered null.

 

Could you just use a single spline between all your nulls, and give the user the option of different types (akima, bspline, bezier, linear etc). Maybe if you had a bezier curve you could give some crude control of angle and degree of curvature at each null. Maybe you could control the angle of the bezier handle via one of those funky "2D vector field" controls, with a slider for curvature.

Hey what do I know? (I always wanted to use one of those 2d vector field thingies)

 

Beta tester signing up here ;)

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Could you just use a single spline between all your nulls, and give the user the option of different types (akima, bspline, bezier, linear etc). Maybe if you had a bezier curve you could give some crude control of angle and degree of curvature at each null. Maybe you could control the angle of the bezier handle via one of those funky "2D vector field" controls, with a slider for curvature.

Hey what do I know? (I always wanted to use one of those 2d vector field thingies)

 

Beta tester signing up here ;)

 

 

Thanks, Mete.

 

Bas: When building Easycam I played around with different curve types. I got it down to a pulldown menu to select cubic or akima. But at the end of the day, I chose akima as the permanant solution. It had the most natural shape for using 2 end points and one middle point. If I'm going to use bends, controlling one middle point of an akima spline is the easiest by far. It's just the challenge of placeing the center point exactly between 2 other points that are dynamic and allowing that center point to always bend away perpendicular to the vector of the start and end. So the challenge is not the bend as much as it is making my method for creating the bend. I just think it's sloppy using targeting tags and nulls when I know theres a math solution somewhere. If I didn't drop out of HS, I'd know that shit. ;)

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Basilisk,

 

Well, I've been testing MoCam. Unfortunately, Xpresso doesn't really give you arrays to store data. So I have to have actual objects hold the data. Plus to use 1 cam to frame shots up, that makes it very complicated to implement. I think I may have to look into using COFFEE instead. Using Xpresso, I'm now making it more complicated than it should be because I'm trying to work within an Expression framework rather than regular code where I can do one process before another or store data in arrays.

 

For example to make the one framing cam move to a particular waypoint, but then immediately be open to move itself which moves the very same waypoint it just moved to. In Xpresso that means I have to wire the cam as a slave to the waypoint to snap to it's position, but then I need that very same waypoint to be a slave of the camera so when you re-frame the cam, your repositioning that waypoint. It makes a loop which won't work.

 

Whereas in regular code I could do something like:

 

Pulldown menu selects waypoint

Camera is told to equal the position of said waypoint (so it snaps to it's position)

User moves camera

If Camera position is unequal to waypoint position then:

Waypoint is set to equal the position of the camera

 

 

Well, I've never used COFFEE so it may be a while :)

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Chris

I can see that Xpresso may be a bit of a cludgy way of doing complex iterative stuff, with several Xpresso nodes to do what you could probably do in a single line of COFFEE code. I imagine it is easier to store all the data in an array, rather than having to attach it to individual objects. I got pretty into Actionscript a while back, and the basics of COFFEE look pretty familiar. Good luck!

Edited by basilisk

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Got a chance to play around a little bit with your 3D stroke version .. very nice .. this is great stuff. Thanks again.

 

Thx. I made that one on principle. Back when 3DStroke (the real one) was really hot, I tried making it in C4D using partical sprites of a bunch of circles spread across a spline (which is what the Trapcode one is). But could never get the Xpresso working right.

 

So I tried using SweepNurbs. But C4D 9.0 Sweep Nurbs didn't have start/end functions OR the graph editor to shape the ends. All it had was "grow". So that didn't work.

 

So I filled out the user request form at Maxon asking why the hell they didn't add start, end, and offset functions to SweebNurbs so it matched Adobe's "Stroke" and Trapcode's "3D Stroke". Of course I didn't expect them to listen.

 

C4D 9.5 came out with the claim that there is now full functioning start and end points that are animatable. Woohoo!

 

But then I get it and it's a pretty bad version of it. You can only taper one end and when you DO taper that end and animate the end point, the taper doesn't move with it! It chops off the tapering! So I was pretty pissed at such a glaring oversight. BUT, I noticed they added the graph editor which would shape the scale of the SweepNurbs along it's path. So I cheked Xpresso and it gave you the ability to control each point in that graph, so there was the gold, and that's what this Xpresso plug does.

 

So the CS_3DStroke is not only 3D Stroke (Obviously) because you can drop and different profile spline in (instead of the default circle) to get whatever kind of thing you want. It's more just that I wondered how much Xpresso it would take to add what I think should be built into SweepNurbs in the first place. Geesh :blink:

 

 

 

 

 

I got pretty into Actionscript a while back, and the basics of COFFEE look pretty familiar. Good luck!

 

I'm hoping COFFEE is similar to Maya's MEL which I was pretty heavy into in ye olden times.

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Just managed to get hold of cinema 4d in the office - i've used basic 3D software before infiniD back in the student days -, so i'm a complete newbie when i say newbie i've had about a 2 hours play. I really want to use the 3d stroke plugin but for the life of me i can't get it to work - i feel a bit daft asking as it seems a really simple tool to use - can anyone help.

 

What i do is:

 

first go to objects => object library => CS_3D stroke, which then put a 3D stroke object in the Objects panel, then I create a freehand spline then from the objects panel i drag the spline into the pathspline box in the 3DStroke panel.

 

I know their is going to be really simple solution

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Just managed to get hold of cinema 4d in the office - i've used basic 3D software before infiniD back in the student days -, so i'm a complete newbie when i say newbie i've had about a 2 hours play. I really want to use the 3d stroke plugin but for the life of me i can't get it to work - i feel a bit daft asking as it seems a really simple tool to use - can anyone help.

 

What i do is:

 

first go to objects => object library => CS_3D stroke, which then put a 3D stroke object in the Objects panel, then I create a freehand spline then from the objects panel i drag the spline into the pathspline box in the 3DStroke panel.

 

I know their is going to be really simple solution

 

That's it. It may be there but you're not seeing it over the spline. Move the offset slider and see if you see the hump travel across the spline. Render a frame a it should show you the white stroke.

 

You do at least C4D 9.5 though. If it's anything earlier it won't work. It uses the new features added to the sweepnurbs.

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I think they are just xpresso, so will work fine with UB (I am using them with my UB version of 9.6)

Might be some other reason they don't work with v10

 

Chris (if you are reading) - finding CS 3D stroke a life saver in a job I am working on. If it ever gets finished I will show you the result.

Did you ever get anywhere with your multiposition camera animation tool?

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they are just pre-setup C4D files - no plugins, C4D versions or certain OSs required.

 

they all open fine in C4D R10 on a Mac. Just open the file like any other file, no installing of anything.

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Hey Guys. They are working fine in R10 for me (haven't tried on a PC yet) so I haven't bothered modifying them at all. However in R10, I've had a bit of a stall working on Xpresso stuff because I'm getting unpredictable UI results. For example the UI slider's won't shift order. Also the 'seperator' type won't show up as a seperator. Strange. Been working on a procederal walk cycle generator for the last couple of months.

 

basilisk:

 

Kick arse! Glad to hear it. Good to know some people are using them. I would love to see your results with it. Let me know if there is something I can add to it to make it better.

 

Did you ever get anywhere with your multiposition camera animation tool?

 

Decided to bail on it. If it was a doable mod to Easycam , I would have done it. But realizing I would need to learn COFFEE, I realized it would be a long road only to end up with basically what the "Steady Cam Pro" plug already does.

 

My plugs were meant to take things I do all the time repeatedly and make them encapsulated into a artistic simplified way so that when I am doing real work on a time crunch, I'm thinking artistically and not getting caught up with rebuilding things. Doing that Camera tool left that world and into a developer world which I don't want to deal with. ;)

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basilisk:

Kick arse! Glad to hear it. Good to know some people are using them. I would love to see your results with it. Let me know if there is something I can add to it to make it better.

Sure will, client still has to approve the approach. I will let you know if I come up with any suggestions.

Decided to bail on it. If it was a doable mod to Easycam , I would have done it. But realizing I would need to learn COFFEE, I realized it would be a long road only to end up with basically what the "Steady Cam Pro" plug already does.

 

My plugs were meant to take things I do all the time repeatedly and make them encapsulated into a artistic simplified way so that when I am doing real work on a time crunch, I'm thinking artistically and not getting caught up with rebuilding things. Doing that Camera tool left that world and into a developer world which I don't want to deal with. ;)

 

completely understand. In my web/flash design days, most the calls I got were for Actionscript coding and creativity took a nosedive.

It seems perfectly possible to blend between camera/target positions using Posemixer. Not sure how useful that is in an actual project, but I might give it a go.

Edited by basilisk

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It seems perfectly possible to blend between camera/target positions using Posemixer. Not sure how useful that is in an actual project, but I might give it a go.

 

I forgot about that. I've read several places that people have been doing that. I'll need to check it out.

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Guest Sao_bento

they are just pre-setup C4D files - no plugins, C4D versions or certain OSs required.

 

they all open fine in C4D R10 on a Mac. Just open the file like any other file, no installing of anything.

Yeah, they just don't appear in the object menu anymore. That was kind of handy, but no big deal.

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You just need to move them from your old R9 object menu to the R10 one and they should show up then. You could also add them to your content browser although I've never tried it myself.

 

The path for the object menu should be

 

app/library/object

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I forgot about that. I've read several places that people have been doing that. I'll need to check it out.

 

The big question is whether the camera animation can be exported to AE - not much use if it can't.

Has anyone tried it?

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