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Edgard

Pointless Cinema vs EI Debate

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Guest Sao_Bento
Seems like ElectricImage which is pioneered on projection mapping technique is not mentioned here. Well all just pure marketing.

Gee, I wonder if there's a reason it's not on the tip of everyone's tongue (declining market share, lack of momentum, inability to turn the company around, etc.) - oh wait! - I've got it - we're all too stupid to appreciate such a great product (which I gladly abandoned once I used C4D).

 

Worse than that, they're also spammers. I've asked to be taken off their mailing list countless times over the last several years, but they won't do it because they desperately want to create an inflated sense of interest in their product. If I ever feel like I'm getting too much done and I need some software to reign me in by slowing me down with bad UI, etc., EIAS is certainly a well qualified candidate, but I'll go with Blender - at least it's free and they won't spam me for the rest of my life.

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Yeah, I remember using it (elec image) in conjunction with Form-Z. Loved it back then, but I had no idea.

Never could get over the separate modeling and ani apps, or was it just modeling first? Whatever.

And sooo glad things have changed.

 

BTW, the guy who I replaced back then used to use it, and pronounced 'Image' like 'SoftImage'.

It used to make me laugh until my balls fell off.

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Dudes you for sure C4D has gotten popular thanks to the great investment by the upgrades they gladly charged for and their tons of publicity as one user mentioned they used to give up at ILM C4D for 2 cents to be used by their artist while EIAS has always been there. It seems these days that people is C4D brainwashed :)

 

Like is the only application that woks for Motion Graphics. Is got some great publicity i have to admit . I like it but is not as killer as it sounds. I wonder why Gnomon has a Bodypaint course but no C4D? :) Neither EIAS? So is not the mega star as they preach to be, that is all i am saying.

 

There is a lot of other product that are far more solid than Cinema. And that is coming form a C4D user. EIAS is old and all you want to say about it but when you pumped the Anti-alias and the Sampling it doesnt die like Cinema does. You have to get Advanced Render for more than what EIAS costs. That is ridiculous.

 

And dude common now days you cant use just one application to get the job done. Nothing wrong with using separate app s MICRODOT stated. Give me a break.

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Edgard:

 

BAH.

 

C4d is by the far the most fluid in working in conjunction with AE, IMHO.

No scale bullshit in going back n forth. between that and it's user fiednly approach, I think that classifies it as one of if not the

best goto app for Mograph.

 

And no one is arguing that we all use more than app to do various things.

I was just saying that I found EAIS to be stupid in that they sold you two sep apps in the first place.

 

"Nice model, - Oh, you want to animate it too? Why didn't you say so? Got your wallet fuckface?"

 

dumb.

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Got your wallet fuckface? :)

That is what Cinema tells you if you want to add a freaking Motion Blur or add any GI. Good point there. You just gave me more reason to make my point more clear. FOr organic yes but for Hard Body surfacing nothing beats ElectricImage period.

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Got your wallet fuckface? :)

That is what Cinema tells you if you want to add a freaking Motion Blur or add any GI.

 

WOW, an amazingly intellectual comment. However, I guess there should be some solace for someone, who is obviously filled with so much distress. It must be a startling experience, to come the the realization, that you have ultimately failed in you job as a designer; to always adapt and change. You placed your every hope and dream, in what resulted in a failure of a program. So i am sorry you are struggling with this life crisis and are afraid to move one, hoping that some day EI will turn around.

 

There are reasons a piece of software is inexpensive, "declining market share, lack of momentum, inability to turn the company around, etc..." EI did the exact same thing as lightwave, opted for two separate apps (modeling, animation), notice how the real 3D players are all in one apps? Then EI (lightwave) released a version with tons of overdue upgrades and added in a few extra free options, but this strategy does not work. It is vaguely reminiscent of the Plymouth prowler, ya know kind of cool looking, but ultimatly worthless, and the company still failed. Now EI remains in business, because of people like you who have an explicit inability to perceive change and adapt.

 

"Seems like ElectricImage which is pioneered on projection mapping technique is not mentioned here. Well all just pure marketing." Yeah and the marketing aspect is sort of discouraged here...ask any Adobe representative that decides to comment. People here are simply discussing whatever helps them get their job done. I will give you a hint...its not EI.

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Does Edgard have a point or is he just in a bad mood? Because there is a lot of reaching.

 

If the attempted point is "EIAS is a better program than C4D, except Maxon's GENIUS marketing scheme has us ALL fooled", I beg to differ.

 

I've always found Maxon's marketing lacking really. I feel they rely too much on promoting how big studios use Bodypaint in their reels over the thousands of motion graphics professionals that use C4D get things done. And like Sao said, the makers of EI spam me endlessly about their new updates. WHich I read because it's a nice chuckle, "Oh, I see they finally added feature X only 5 years after most other programs did".

 

I, like many of us, used EIAS back in the day (back when it was relevant and somewhat on par with it's peers). It had a fast and beautiful renderer. But after being the last program to adopt about every feature in the book, it was very easy to NOT use it as one of the tools to get things done.

 

I give it props for being a great program early on, but if you're still towing that line, then you're in denial like the ATARI ST club.

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Just thought Id mention like microdot and others..

 

We used EI back in 97-2000 (with formz also). It was one of the few good 3d apps available on the mac at the time. Was also one of the few 3d apps (or apps in general on <OS9) that only crashed 8 times a day rather than 20. When you werent restarting your computer, the thing DID render fast and results looked great. Then it got sold to Play, the modeler was postponed for years and it unfortunately and frustratingly remainbed buggy. I dont know what happenned to it since. I see a few studios still use it--one bing Hive Studios in AU

 

http://www.hivestudios.com.au/HiveStudios.com.html

Or they did use it when they were called Drummond Design--they may have moved on.

 

We even belonged to a great EI users group that we attended monthly. One of the reps came and showed us all the shots they did for the SW special edition and Mission Impossible. But that was 11 years ago. It was actually in one of those groups that they demoed C4d. Moving to C4d is still one of the best decisions I've ever made. That being said--would love to see what others are doing with EI professionally.

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Pointless indeed.

Sao and C.Smith's replies cover just about everything that went through my head.

I can't believe that anybody who had actually "been there" could have missed these memos.

 

-m

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Cinema 4D, despite its strengths, has never really been focused as heavily on the VFX industry and has limited character options when compared to something like Maya or Softimage. This is why you see bodypaint tutorials rather than C4D on Gnomon. It's a different target audience and industry. It doesn't mean that C4D is just a bad app, just a different focus.

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Cinema 4D, despite its strengths,....... has limited character options when compared to something like Maya or Softimage.

I beg to differ. Have you checked the CA tools after R10 was released?

It's just that CINEMA 4D has no trackrecord for CA (for good reasons since the older versions were realy second choice for this).

Whats missing now for larger animation projects is a good implementation of NLA :)

 

Cheers

Björn

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I beg to differ. Have you checked the CA tools after R10 was released?

It's just that CINEMA 4D has no trackrecord for CA (for good reasons since the older versions were realy second choice for this).

Whats missing now for larger animation projects is a good implementation of NLA :)

I'll second this.

R10+ has great CA tools. C4D just needs to wait for the users to catch up. Pre-R10 was a nightmare.

People keep saying it doesn't because they've gotten use to saying it doesn't.

Which reminds me... "There's no software for Macs".

 

;)

 

-m

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I was sort of including NLA features when I was referring to character animation tools. Maya's are pretty bad too, but Softimage does a great job. I haven't been as impressed with the CA tools, but I agree a lot more can probably be done with them than has been so far.

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Hi RustyAce,Chirs.S and all about the comment "Nice model, - Oh, you want to animate it too? Why didn't you say so? Got your wallet fuckface?" was first mentioned by microdot.so i quoted him.

I have always behave in a respectful manner but you know this sort of behavior can be tolerated here. That is fine with me. And no i am not nearly in a bad mood in fact i am enjoying these topic between which is better . I dont think i have mentioned i rather use C4D over EIAS in very few situations. I also use AfterEffects and they(C4D/AE) can communicate excellent with each other. They both work together better than EIAS and Mocon. No doubt about that period.

 

But correct me if i am wrong , we use several tools to get the job done you pick your pencil to draw over the canvas which pencil? that is up to you. The old EIAS keep hitting some good scores over the competitors for been an old dog . If you do HD is almost very difficult to be able to render your project on a single machine that doesnt happened with EI. Renderama is one of their weapons.

 

I did a 3d terrain of Spain in C4D at PAL resolution one minute animation of a camera fly through it took 8 hours to render. In my MacBooKPro . I did the same on EIAS and it was missing some polys so i wasnt able to do it as it handles millions of polys off course if you have enough ram.

 

I use both app , the mograph module is a smart piece of technology,how it works with TP is superb, Xpresso is just magical and the avility to have all these in a single interface is very smart by Maxon. Dont get me wrong i am not trying to burn C4D i am just trying to point out that hey there is various applications that can do the same thing faster and the output of the image as evrybody knows is excellent, now EIAS are bringing in photon and the DYNAMICS are fantastic as the GI so it needs a lot of work the application but it still alive and creating beautiful imagery.

 

 

But it seems there is only one app if is not Maya you must go to your second best choice C4D. Absolutely wrong. But what i penalized C4D is for charging a lot of money when you want to get an upgrade

C4D 9.5 to 10.5 600$ just to upgrade the core application. excuse me guys that is simply ridiculous.I rather get Vray for a bit more of money than upgrading to the latest version if giving me the choice.

 

I have used a lot of software in my life to create Motion Graphics, work for Private, several shows, a Spanish televison channel as a Senior Broadcast Designer where we used VizArtist. So i have been around.

 

Sao dude we have spoken privately several times , so i dont think i have ever disapproved your knowledge in the subject.

 

Chris.S thanks for stepping in i was waiting for one of the leaders to step in. And as i said before i am not in bad mood nor i woke up with my left foot just simply pointing out some of the history that surrounds this interesting world of motion graphics.

 

 

Thanks

Edgard

Edited by Edgard

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Well Chris what better man to talk in the name of C4D, you know the ins and outs of these piece of software,i donot know how do you program some of the things you do , like Koruyama. SO i think i had to express in my defense of all the s.. has been spoken about me. i am surprised my arguments with examples havent been accepted. Well nothing i can do. i have tried but it seems these s a C4D community instead of a mograph community. People that does tutorials for C4D dont even use the software for their personal work, isnt that something.

Edited by Edgard

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People that does tutorials for C4D dont even use the software for their personal work, isnt that something.

 

eh? This thread is like listening to my ex-gf argue. She would be upset and throw out a bunch of unfocused comments. Then you would try and find the point so you could get her to settle down. Then just when things die down and you think she's over it, she would throw out one last confusing statement to keep the dust unsettled. And it never made sense, just sounded vaguely threatening. And you were like, Wha?

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Can't we all just get along....both programs suck....crystal topas all the way.....waaaaah...waahhh

 

I'm very new to Cinema and 3D in general but it does seem Cinema is lacking in terms of VFX not CA tools but VFX tools.

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