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patrickedge

C4D - F-Curves

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Hey guys, been a while since I've posted on here...Hope this isn't a total wtfyounoob post..

 

In C4D (R10), they combined the Timeline & F-Curves into one window. I'm having trouble getting handles on my velocity curves.. It's driving me completely up the wall, and I can't figure it out.

 

I can switch between "Key Mode" and the other mode (velocity mode??), but very little seems to be different. In some tutorials I've seen the F-Curve mode doesn't have the position curves, just the velocity curves. This is exactly what I'm looking for.

 

Hope this all makes sense...I'm sure there's something totally basic that I'm missing, but I've exhausted my options. Thanks for the help -

Edited by patrickedge

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There should be three buttons in the row of icons under the "Timeline" heading that are linear, step, and spline. If you select a keyframe and hit spline I think it should give you the handles. If not try clicking "soft" in the easing drop down menu...

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Hey djkorova, thanks for the response.

 

The problem I'm having isn't with the position curves themselves, it's with the velocity curves. Maybe I'm confused on how C4D works, but I would think you could separate the velocity curves without effecting the motion path. Here's a screen shot:

 

c4d_curves.jpg

 

 

Ultimately, I'd like to smooth out my velocity curves so my camera isn't herky-jerky. Again, I realize this is probably a dumb question, but I simply can't figure this out. Thanks again -

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I think where there may be some confusion (and someone please step in if I'm wrong). Is that purely velocity curves only happen when all the position parameters are locked. Like in AE. We're used to always setting the X and the Y (and Z) at the same time. We always keyframe them as one vector. So it allows a separate window that can JUST be velocity. However in C4D for maximum control the XYZ,HPB are NOT locked to each other. So what you are doing is changing thir velocity and value at the same time. But as you know the combined value of the X, Y, and Z all equal it's position in space.

 

So ways to get around it are to key all parameters at the same frame and select them in groups when tweaking curves (then they'll all tweak together). Also you can use a "Time" track which can put a velocity curve over what you already have. It's like Time remapping in AE.

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I'd like to get a concrete answer on this as well. I believe in the past, it was possible to alter velocity independently but now that the timeline has been given a make over, it's just not possible to do so anymore.

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I think where there may be some confusion (and someone please step in if I'm wrong). Is that purely velocity curves only happen when all the position parameters are locked. Like in AE. We're used to always setting the X and the Y (and Z) at the same time. We always keyframe them as one vector. So it allows a separate window that can JUST be velocity. However in C4D for maximum control the XYZ,HPB are NOT locked to each other. So what you are doing is changing thir velocity and value at the same time. But as you know the combined value of the X, Y, and Z all equal it's position in space.

 

So ways to get around it are to key all parameters at the same frame and select them in groups when tweaking curves (then they'll all tweak together). Also you can use a "Time" track which can put a velocity curve over what you already have. It's like Time remapping in AE.

 

This is my impression of it as well. Personally, I like this a lot better than AE's curves, and the time track is what I go to when I want to change velocity and not the actual value of my keys.

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Hey djkorova, thanks for the response.

 

The problem I'm having isn't with the position curves themselves, it's with the velocity curves. Maybe I'm confused on how C4D works, but I would think you could separate the velocity curves without effecting the motion path. Here's a screen shot:

 

c4d_curves.jpg

Ultimately, I'd like to smooth out my velocity curves so my camera isn't herky-jerky. Again, I realize this is probably a dumb question, but I simply can't figure this out. Thanks again -

 

When you bring up the 'timeline' window (shift F3) you'll notice you can switch back and fourth between showing the keys and showing the curves by clicking the first button in the upper right hand corner of the window to toggle between the two. Click to show the curves. You can select all the curves by hitting 'command A' or drag and select over whatever you want to adjust. When you select the parameters of what you have keyed in the 'curves' mode, you can adjust the velocity of the selected keys by pulling the tangents left or right in a horizontal manner, keeping the tangents horizontal. If you move the tangents up or down on a selected position key parameter, that will change the position of the path you have animated.

 

So when adjusting tangents on curves, left to right to adjust velocity (you can hold down shift when moving them to keep the tangents horizontal) and up and down to adjust or change shape of the path. :)

 

Also, by selecting keyed parameters and right clicking or control clicking with a mac mouse, you can bring up the window to change curves and tangents to linear, step or spline and also apply easy easy, ease in, ease out, break tangents, apply auto tangents, etc.

 

I usually select all keys in curves mode, right click, make them 'linear' and then apply 'soft' or one of the 'ease' settings as a starting point to simultaneously take any wackiness out of say, my camera path and then adjust the velocity of the key frames.

 

I hope this helps.

 

C

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When you bring up the 'timeline' window (shift F3) you'll notice you can switch back and fourth between showing the keys and showing the curves by clicking the first button in the upper right hand corner of the window to toggle between the two. Click to show the curves. You can select all the curves by hitting 'command A' or drag and select over whatever you want to adjust. When you select the parameters of what you have keyed in the 'curves' mode, you can adjust the velocity of the selected keys by pulling the tangents left or right in a horizontal manner, keeping the tangents horizontal. If you move the tangents up or down on a selected position key parameter, that will change the position of the path you have animated.

 

So when adjusting tangents on curves, left to right to adjust velocity (you can hold down shift when moving them to keep the tangents horizontal) and up and down to adjust or change shape of the path. :)

 

Also, by selecting keyed parameters and right clicking or control clicking with a mac mouse, you can bring up the window to change curves and tangents to linear, step or spline and also apply easy easy, ease in, ease out, break tangents, apply auto tangents, etc.

 

I usually select all keys in curves mode, right click, make them 'linear' and then apply 'soft' or one of the 'ease' settings as a starting point to simultaneously take any wackiness out of say, my camera path and then adjust the velocity of the key frames.

 

I hope this helps.

 

C

 

It sure helped. Thank you for taking the time to explain it so thoroughly. One more question regarding the tangent adjustments (moving them left to right). How can we ensure to stay parallel when pulling the tangents left or right. It tends to move a bit up or down. I tried holding the shift key but that didn't do anything. Any tips?

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With your mouse over the F-Curve Manager, hit T-3. That'll zero the angle and lock it that way. T-3 again unlocks the zero-angle. One look in the Attributes manager as you do your T-3 will show you what you're doing (you're ticking and unticking 'zero angle').

 

A lot of good stuff in that T menu, worth learning a few by heart.

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With your mouse over the F-Curve Manager, hit T-3. That'll zero the angle and lock it that way. T-3 again unlocks the zero-angle. One look in the Attributes manager as you do your T-3 will show you what you're doing (you're ticking and unticking 'zero angle').

 

A lot of good stuff in that T menu, worth learning a few by heart.

 

Priceless info! Thank you very much Govinda.

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When you bring up the 'timeline' window (shift F3) you'll notice you can switch back and fourth between showing the keys and showing the curves by clicking the first button in the upper right hand corner of the window to toggle between the two. Click to show the curves. You can select all the curves by hitting 'command A' or drag and select over whatever you want to adjust. When you select the parameters of what you have keyed in the 'curves' mode, you can adjust the velocity of the selected keys by pulling the tangents left or right in a horizontal manner, keeping the tangents horizontal. If you move the tangents up or down on a selected position key parameter, that will change the position of the path you have animated.

 

So when adjusting tangents on curves, left to right to adjust velocity (you can hold down shift when moving them to keep the tangents horizontal) and up and down to adjust or change shape of the path. :)

 

Also, by selecting keyed parameters and right clicking or control clicking with a mac mouse, you can bring up the window to change curves and tangents to linear, step or spline and also apply easy easy, ease in, ease out, break tangents, apply auto tangents, etc.

 

I usually select all keys in curves mode, right click, make them 'linear' and then apply 'soft' or one of the 'ease' settings as a starting point to simultaneously take any wackiness out of say, my camera path and then adjust the velocity of the key frames.

 

I hope this helps.

 

C

 

 

 

 

ohhhhh

 

now it makes sense. i'm glad to have had the weekend away from the project...c4d was driving me insane because of this..i'm going to try your suggestions now, but they sound like the answer to my question. thanks for clearing this up for me!

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damn..

 

after trying that out, it doesn't seem to help any.. when i switch between keframe mode and velocity mode, they look almost identical. the only difference between the 2 is keyframe mode has icons at the keyframes, whereas velocity mode doesn't. they look nearly the same..

 

problem is, i would expect velocity mode to have tangents at the keyframes, otherwise there's no real point in having a velocity mode to begin with. am i missing something here?

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damn..

 

after trying that out, it doesn't seem to help any.. when i switch between keframe mode and velocity mode, they look almost identical. the only difference between the 2 is keyframe mode has icons at the keyframes, whereas velocity mode doesn't. they look nearly the same..

 

problem is, i would expect velocity mode to have tangents at the keyframes, otherwise there's no real point in having a velocity mode to begin with. am i missing something here?

 

I was in the same boat as you were. What gets you off your track is the idea of being able to alter the velocity of an animation via a designated velocity mode. This doesn't exist. The way to alter the velocity of an animation is done via F-Curve(s). Let's say you have a simple sphere going from X=0 to X=200 in 10 frames. Upon setting your keyframes, you'd open up timeline. Once the timeline is open, switch to F-Curve mode and find your object from the left hand side and expand it via clicking the [+] sign. Once again expand position and click on Position . X. Now zoom in to get a nice view of the F-Curve representation of the Position . X. The trick is to click on the keyframes' handle to push or pull 'em horizontally. If at the same time you have Show Velocity checked under F-Curve, you'll see that the velocity will change accordingly. One problem that I ran into was the unforeseen (minor) changes in interpolated (in between) frames having to go above 200 or go below 0. To avoid this, check Zero Angle check box on those keyframes under Attribute Manager. This is what I understood according to chris_ & govinda's explanations. Which by the way were immensely helpful. Otherwise, I'd still be stuck in my own little world trying to find a way to alter velocity.

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I was in the same boat as you were. What gets you off your track is the idea of being able to alter the velocity of an animation via a designated velocity mode. This doesn't exist. The way to alter the velocity of an animation is done via F-Curve(s). Let's say you have a simple sphere going from X=0 to X=200 in 10 frames. Upon setting your keyframes, you'd open up timeline. Once the timeline is open, switch to F-Curve mode and find your object from the left hand side and expand it via clicking the [+] sign. Once again expand position and click on Position . X. Now zoom in to get a nice view of the F-Curve representation of the Position . X. The trick is to click on the keyframes' handle to push or pull 'em horizontally. If at the same time you have Show Velocity checked under F-Curve, you'll see that the velocity will change accordingly. One problem that I ran into was the unforeseen (minor) changes in interpolated (in between) frames having to go above 200 or go below 0. To avoid this, check Zero Angle check box on those keyframes under Attribute Manager. This is what I understood according to chris_ & govinda's explanations. Which by the way were immensely helpful. Otherwise, I'd still be stuck in my own little world trying to find a way to alter velocity.

 

 

hey guys, thanks for all the responses -

 

unless i'm totally blind to something i'm doing, when i use the method you're describing, it still alters my positional date. i'm working on a big camera fly thru and can't get my timings smooth without jacking up my smooth positional moves.

 

i can't believe i can't figure this out...

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Changing the velocity will by its nature change the positiondata (you are somewhere else at a different time because of a different speed.)

I can only suggest transforming your animation path to a spline and then move the cam along the spline.

The "path" is then defined (by the spline) and you can work with the timing more precisely.

 

Cheers

Lennart

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Changing the velocity will by its nature change the positiondata (you are somewhere else at a different time because of a different speed.)

I can only suggest transforming your animation path to a spline and then move the cam along the spline.

The "path" is then defined (by the spline) and you can work with the timing more precisely.

 

Cheers

Lennart

 

 

 

it would make more sense to me if you could alter the velocity but it would just constrain the camera to the path, and move it in time. i'm an old 3D max guy, and though its been a few years since i've used it, i think you could do what im looking for in that program...?

Edited by patrickedge

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