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Todd Kopriva

After Effects CS4

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By the way, the 3D is not about 3D

 

http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2008/09/photoshop_3d_is.html

(no, I don't know what it's about)

 

I am glad to read John wrote about this.

I've seen things that let me say that all of this will eventually lead to very relevant tools for Photoshop. I mean, at the core of Photoshop's own thing.

It's not about competing with 3D apps, or even with 3D paint apps like Bodypaint.

It's more of a foundation thing.

 

BTW, I am not sure Photoshop CS4 is a marketer's dream. It's full of things Photoshop users would find useful rather than "spectacular" stuff (even if the demos obviously suggest otherwise).

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I am not too worried about having a fully featured 3D render engine in PS/AE, but I have found the vanishing point tool useful for bringing a bit of simple geometry with projection maps into AE. I reckon the ability to support a few more surfaces than just planes would make it even more useful - maybe a few primitives and basic extruded curves, plus the ability to project different layers onto different bits of geometry would be handy.

At the moment I have to render moves on even simple non planar surfaces in C4D before bringing them into AE, and cutting out that step would be sweet.

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I am not too worried about having a fully featured 3D render engine in PS/AE, but I have found the vanishing point tool useful for bringing a bit of simple geometry with projection maps into AE. I reckon the ability to support a few more surfaces than just planes would make it even more useful - maybe a few primitives and basic extruded curves, plus the ability to project different layers onto different bits of geometry would be handy.

At the moment I have to render moves on even simple non planar surfaces in C4D before bringing them into AE, and cutting out that step would be sweet.

 

really? Every time I have used the vanishing point tool, I have been awestruck by how badly it makes the image look - aliasing like you have never seen before and image degradation. Same with the warp tool deformations (although not as bad, and not in all situations). This is the kind of stuff I would like to see fixed. That might sell me CS4 - make the tools they have now work well instead of adding more things that kinda work half-assed.

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really? Every time I have used the vanishing point tool, I have been awestruck by how badly it makes the image look - aliasing like you have never seen before and image degradation.

 

I guess I have usually started from a fairly high resolution source - usually a digital photo of an object that I turn into a simple 3D prop. I agree that it is not all that it could be, to be truly useful. Great as C4D is for projection mapping (and the new v11 projection tool is even slicker) the ability to use projection mapped geometry directly in AE as a true 3D layer that works with regular 3D planes would be worth having; and having the tools in photoshop to produce that geometry would be handy too.

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Guest Sao_Bento
creative cow article has been pulled

Come Tuesday, the hard part will be avoiding the marketing blitz that is sure to be unleashed. You won't have any problem finding out what it's all about.

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Come Tuesday, the hard part will be avoiding the marketing blitz that is sure to be unleashed. You won't have any problem finding out what it's all about.

 

Rather than "marketing blitz", I hope to actually provide information.

 

(I don't think that our marketing people read Mograph. Maybe that's why I feel comfortable here.)

 

While others are going crazy hyping a few big features, I want to help y'all to actually learn about all of the small, useful changes---and the real details in the big features.

 

I can't say much now. I can speak very freely on the 23rd, and we'll post thousands of pages of documents on that day, too.

 

If you'd rather I just shut up and go away, I can go spend my forum time on Creative COW. :P

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Guest Sao_Bento

I didn't mean that the marketing blitz would occur here. I agree that it is doubtful that the Adobe marketing people are mograph.net'ers. What I meant is that everything from PVC, the Cow, Gizmodo, AppleInsider, etc. will be running stories about CS4. You won't have to look too hard to find the press releases. I'm sure many people here would appreciate hearing the un-spun specifics rather than the "WOW, interactive twirl filter" stuff that will undoubtable be front an center in the non-professional coverage.

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Rather than "marketing blitz", I hope to actually provide information.

 

(I don't think that our marketing people read Mograph. Maybe that's why I feel comfortable here.)

 

While others are going crazy hyping a few big features, I want to help y'all to actually learn about all of the small, useful changes---and the real details in the big features.

 

I can't say much now. I can speak very freely on the 23rd, and we'll post thousands of pages of documents on that day, too.

 

If you'd rather I just shut up and go away, I can go spend my forum time on Creative COW. :P

 

I look forward to it.

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I'm sure many people here would appreciate hearing the un-spun specifics rather than the "WOW, interactive twirl filter" stuff that will undoubtable be front an center in the non-professional coverage.

 

Yeah - that and the pricing.

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To me the biggest thing I'd like to see from AE is better project management. Look at apps like C4D, they have an object manager with a timeline. Why can't AE do the same thing. I'm tired of having huge projects with hundreds of layers and precomps up the wazoo. I'd love to see a system that will allow up to collapse layers. I'd like to see an interface more like Flame where all your controls are down at the bottom in a tabbed style UI, but that space is all take up by the comps, and precomps. I'd love to see a layer, manager to isolate stuff with tagging the way Zorro is doing. I'd love to see a better precomp proxy solution that, Nucleo is doing. And AE is very unfriendly toward multiple artist working together with out a centralized server.

 

Someday, please :unsure:

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I have been an AE user since Cosa and I still love the tool but, it seems that once a code set come so far along, it's really difficult to make major structural changes without a complete rewrite. Does anyone know if/when AE has gone through a foundation rewrite? It still feels, structurally speaking, very similar to version 3.0 to me despite the obvious advances in abilities.

 

-gl

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I have been an AE user since Cosa and I still love the tool but, it seems that once a code set come so far along, it's really difficult to make major structural changes without a complete rewrite. Does anyone know if/when AE has gone through a foundation rewrite? It still feels, structurally speaking, very similar to version 3.0 to me despite the obvious advances in abilities.

 

-gl

 

let's say adobe announced that all the feature requests and changes that people have been asking about for years are going to be done, but it will take a complete rewrite over 3 years, and it would add $150 per license to help cover all the development of a fresh, next gen platform.

I bet most people tat make money with that app would say: "get to it",

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I totally agree. That is really my point. AE is feeling like it's getting clogged up now and could use a fresh start...including the way it handles multiple CPUs and memory. I appreciate the improvements but, I hope they also have a sizable going on to bring it to the world we all work in. Right now, the only next gen composting tools out there are Nuke and Fusion (well, Motion should count as well I spose). I wanna see AE rebooted.

 

-gl

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Guest Sao_Bento

I believe the story was that 5.0 was a total re-write, but I could be wrong. Premiere has supposedly been re-written a couple of times, but that doesn't seem to have stopped the complaints.

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I believe the story was that 5.0 was a total re-write, but I could be wrong. Premiere has supposedly been re-written a couple of times, but that doesn't seem to have stopped the complaints.

 

Yes, I still feel they missed a big window of opportunity with PPro but, oh well. NLEs are now commodities. I happen to use FCP but, I don't care as much any more.

 

With AE, if it feels like a paradigm shift needs to be part of the rewrite. The nodal approach (or something like it) is pretty compelling when you get your head around it. Even in observing the 3DMax particle generator it made me wonder at what AE would be like if it were nodal ar at least more procedural.

 

-gl

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I don't think a complete rewrite is coming until they embrace more GPU. Look at all the high end sytems, especially color grading on 4K. Scratch, DaVinci, Luster, Pablo, even Flame. Its Nvidia cards with sweetl GPU. AE would need a complete re-write to embrace this. At this time I believe they should bring in real geometry for camera mapping. I think they should switch more to an object base workflow rather than a layer. It doesn't have to be fully nodal, but it would be nice. You can still have your layers but mostly just for the timing of animation. Because it would be object based you would have to keep track of Z space a little more, but it wouldn't be too hard. Just my thoughts on the future of AE, or day dreams I should say.

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let's say adobe announced that all the feature requests and changes that people have been asking about for years are going to be done, but it will take a complete rewrite over 3 years, and it would add $150 per license to help cover all the development of a fresh, next gen platform.

I bet most people tat make money with that app would say: "get to it",

 

I know the feeling.

 

For amusement purposes only, suppose we add to that list, "And none of your existing projects will open in the rewrite." Is your answer still, "Woo, get to it?"

 

(How about, "Existing plugins don't work in the rewrite?" Oh... Apple already did that to my PPC plugins... and the 68k plugins before them...)

 

But those considerations definitely add a burden to future development on any application.

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I know the feeling.

 

For amusement purposes only, suppose we add to that list, "And none of your existing projects will open in the rewrite." Is your answer still, "Woo, get to it?"

 

(How about, "Existing plugins don't work in the rewrite?" Oh... Apple already did that to my PPC plugins... and the 68k plugins before them...)

 

But those considerations definitely add a burden to future development on any application.

 

there's no reason that old projects would have to be abandoned. if a product like automatic duck can be made by a third party with (comparatively) limited access to the API's from each developer, there's no reason Adobe couldn't transfer project and layer settings. and.. it's not like adobe wouldn't be able to give all the other plugin developers plenty of advance notice on development timelines/requirements.

 

MS gave everyone plenty of notice and tools for vista development, but most companies dropped the ball. considering the nioche market of AE, i doubt most plugin and tool devs would be as lackadaisical.

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Guest Sao_Bento

FYI, all the info on the CS4 apps went up today on the Adobe website - I think a lot of people were expecting that nothing would be announced until the webcast thing tomorrow.

 

http://www.adobe.com/products/aftereffects/

 

I think it's pretty funny that they have a file format named after a failed sports league.

xfl.jpg

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