Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
jazman

Joe The Plumber?

Recommended Posts

Live your life as a Protestant and then find because you weren't baptised as a Catholic you don't get let in to heaven.

What about Allah or יהוה

or Krishna or Buddha or Prince Phillip

 

Pascal's wager was all very well in 17th century France, where everyone was a Catholic, but it doesn't really make sense in a world where no religion has more than a third of the world's population as adherents

 

Jesus said, "I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture." John 10:9

 

"Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father but through Me." John 14:6

 

"And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under Heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Sao_Bento
Jesus said, "I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture." John 10:9

 

"Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father but through Me." John 14:6

 

"And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under Heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12

and?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
For the rest of us, let's just relax and stare at the scene Basilisk formerly beheld on a daily basis.

 

The last day I spent in the Oxford Divinity Schools was as a runner in for the 1997 Chinese film The Opium War, the building was standing in for the Houses of Parliament (which burnt down just before the Opium Wars, so I am not sure quite how that worked)

Edited by basilisk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jesus said, "I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture." John 10:9

 

"Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father but through Me." John 14:6

 

"And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under Heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12

 

Zeus was the son of Cronus and Rhea. He had been considered father of gods and humans alike. He had the power to control the clouds [master of clouds], the atomospheric conditions, fate, law and order. His attributes were the thunderbolt, a scepter and the eagle.

 

Convinced now?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

flogging this thread forward, christianity also borrows a lot from the 2000 years older babylonian mithras religion

 

1. Mithra was sent by the Father God down to Earth to confirm his contract with Man.

2. Mithra was born of a Virgin through - Immaculate Conception - He was born of Anahita, an immaculate virgin mother.

3. Mithra was born in a stable - We celebrate his birth on December 25th -.

4. Mithra was visited by wise men bearing gifts.

5. Mithra had 12 disciples - He was called the Messiah -.

6. Mithra was also the god of Darius, conqueror of Babylon, He was called - - Messiah - - or Christos by Jews during their Captivity.

7. Mithra made a (Contract) or (Covenant) with Man confirming an older contract with God - The Persian word Mithra literally means - - Contract. - -

8. Mithra celebrated a last supper with his disciples before his death.

9. Mithra died to atone for the sins of Man.

10. Mithra was resurrected on a Sunday.

11. Mithra ascended into Heaven to rejoin his Father.

12. Mithra will return to pass judgment on Man - He was known as the judger of souls -.

13. On judgment day, the dead will arise and be judged by Mithra.

14. Mithra will send sinners to HELL.

15. Mithra will send the faithful to HEAVEN.

16. On judgment day there will be a final conflict between Good and Evil - The forces of Evil will be destroyed and the saved will live in paradise forever -.

17. Mithra is part of a Holy Trinity the - (Father, Son, And Holy Spirit) -, that took human form.

18. Mithra is depicted as having a halo, (a circular band of light around his head).

19. Mithra followers drink wine and eat bread, which represent his blood and flesh.

20. Mithra followers are baptized.

21. Saturday and Sunday, the two (2) days of the week to rest and celebrate.

 

 

 

re: Joe, just think its funny how much of a boilerplate caricature he and palin both are, and how there is a whole script of lines you expect to hear from them, and do hear.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Virtually nothing in the bible is original. Most of it was pilfered from other texts. The pagan origins of Easter are another example.

 

flogging this thread forward, christianity also borrows a lot from the 2000 years older babylonian mithras religion

 

1. Mithra was sent by the Father God down to Earth to confirm his contract with Man.

2. Mithra was born of a Virgin through - Immaculate Conception - He was born of Anahita, an immaculate virgin mother.

3. Mithra was born in a stable - We celebrate his birth on December 25th -.

4. Mithra was visited by wise men bearing gifts.

5. Mithra had 12 disciples - He was called the Messiah -.

6. Mithra was also the god of Darius, conqueror of Babylon, He was called - - Messiah - - or Christos by Jews during their Captivity.

7. Mithra made a (Contract) or (Covenant) with Man confirming an older contract with God - The Persian word Mithra literally means - - Contract. - -

8. Mithra celebrated a last supper with his disciples before his death.

9. Mithra died to atone for the sins of Man.

10. Mithra was resurrected on a Sunday.

11. Mithra ascended into Heaven to rejoin his Father.

12. Mithra will return to pass judgment on Man - He was known as the judger of souls -.

13. On judgment day, the dead will arise and be judged by Mithra.

14. Mithra will send sinners to HELL.

15. Mithra will send the faithful to HEAVEN.

16. On judgment day there will be a final conflict between Good and Evil - The forces of Evil will be destroyed and the saved will live in paradise forever -.

17. Mithra is part of a Holy Trinity the - (Father, Son, And Holy Spirit) -, that took human form.

18. Mithra is depicted as having a halo, (a circular band of light around his head).

19. Mithra followers drink wine and eat bread, which represent his blood and flesh.

20. Mithra followers are baptized.

21. Saturday and Sunday, the two (2) days of the week to rest and celebrate.

re: Joe, just think its funny how much of a boilerplate caricature he and palin both are, and how there is a whole script of lines you expect to hear from them, and do hear.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
flogging this thread forward, christianity also borrows a lot from the 2000 years older babylonian mithras religion

 

1. Mithra was sent by the Father God down to Earth to confirm his contract with Man.

2. Mithra was born of a Virgin through - Immaculate Conception - He was born of Anahita, an immaculate virgin mother.

3. Mithra was born in a stable - We celebrate his birth on December 25th -.

4. Mithra was visited by wise men bearing gifts.

5. Mithra had 12 disciples - He was called the Messiah -.

6. Mithra was also the god of Darius, conqueror of Babylon, He was called - - Messiah - - or Christos by Jews during their Captivity.

7. Mithra made a (Contract) or (Covenant) with Man confirming an older contract with God - The Persian word Mithra literally means - - Contract. - -

8. Mithra celebrated a last supper with his disciples before his death.

9. Mithra died to atone for the sins of Man.

10. Mithra was resurrected on a Sunday.

11. Mithra ascended into Heaven to rejoin his Father.

12. Mithra will return to pass judgment on Man - He was known as the judger of souls -.

13. On judgment day, the dead will arise and be judged by Mithra.

14. Mithra will send sinners to HELL.

15. Mithra will send the faithful to HEAVEN.

16. On judgment day there will be a final conflict between Good and Evil - The forces of Evil will be destroyed and the saved will live in paradise forever -.

17. Mithra is part of a Holy Trinity the - (Father, Son, And Holy Spirit) -, that took human form.

18. Mithra is depicted as having a halo, (a circular band of light around his head).

19. Mithra followers drink wine and eat bread, which represent his blood and flesh.

20. Mithra followers are baptized.

21. Saturday and Sunday, the two (2) days of the week to rest and celebrate.

re: Joe, just think its funny how much of a boilerplate caricature he and palin both are, and how there is a whole script of lines you expect to hear from them, and do hear.

dont know where you gout your info but

 

The Mithraic Mysteries or Mysteries of Mithras was a mystery religion practised in the Roman Empire, best attested in Rome and Ostia, Mauretania, Britain and in the provinces along the Rhine and Danube frontier. Today, the beliefs of this cult are also referred to as Mithraism, but this is a recent development.

 

Principles of Mithraism

 

Romans encountered worship of the deity Mithras as part of Zoroastrianism in the eastern provinces of the empire, particularly in Asia Minor (now modern Turkey).

 

Mithraism is best documented in the form it had acquired in the later Roman Empire. It was an initiatory 'mystery religion,' passed from initiate to initiate, like the Eleusinian Mysteries. It was not based on a supernaturally revealed body of scripture, and hence very little written documentary evidence survives. Soldiers appeared to be the most plentiful followers of Mithraism, and women were apparently not allowed to join.

 

Roman worship of Mithras began sometime during the early Roman empire, perhaps during the late first century of the Common Era (hereafter CE), and flourished from the second through the fourth century BCE. during which it came under the influence of Greek and Roman mythologies. The Mithraic cult maintained secrecy. Its teaching were only reveled to initiates.

 

more info http://www.crystalinks.com/mithraism.html

 

This cult came to Rome in the first century A.D. and became popular in the second and third centuries.

this would be POST christ death, let alone old testament

more boring useless fact

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Gaze..._Fingrut**.html

 

 

Can we get back to SAM THE NON FRIKIN PLUMBER. McCain Sucks. The party of christian values is being lead by a biblicaly defined adulterer. See back on topic. OBAMA 08 :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dont know where you gout your info but

 

 

This cult came to Rome in the first century A.D. and became popular in the second and third centuries.

this would be POST christ death, let alone old testament

more boring useless fact

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Gaze..._Fingrut**.html

Can we get back to SAM THE NON FRIKIN PLUMBER. McCain Sucks. The party of christian values is being lead by a biblicaly defined adulterer. See back on topic. OBAMA 08 :)

 

it was around way before the roman soldiers picked up on it (read further down your link), but its rise in roman popularity in the first century would explain how the compilers of the bible could have inserted some extra mythological bling into it. im no expert on this though

 

i totally agree about mccain.

Edited by jablinko

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Theres plenty of proof of the romans borrowing customs from different cultures.. Though, the game of telephone is motherfucker when you play it for a few thousand years before writing down any of the actual storys/events.

 

it was around way before the roman soldiers picked up on it (read further down your link), but its rise in roman popularity in the first century would explain how the compilers of the bible could have inserted some extra mythological bling into it. im no expert on this though

 

i totally agree about mccain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Theres plenty of proof of the romans borrowing customs from different cultures.. Though, the game of telephone is motherfucker when you play it for a few thousand years before writing down any of the actual storys/events.

 

insert john mccain is old joke here

 

na but seriously, is our lifestyle here, joe the plumbers late model truck and flat screen at the detriment of 3rd world countries or is there a way we could be a world leader economic leader and leader of lifestyle without the dirty CIA tactics we employed in the previous century to get our oil, fruit, minierals, and manufacturing at the lowest possible price? i dont know. i just want a sustainable world, and then who cares what people believe, but it just seems like the joe the plumbers of the world would rather go to war than compromise in any way. i mean, in a free democratic market, arent the middle eastern countries entitled to some of their oil profits and some level of democratic self-determination. but in joe's mind its all boiled down to simple good / guy bad guy thing. i mean if we had our valuable resources fucked with by some disrespectful foreign empire wouldnt we feel entitled to be opposed. joe the plumber would be pissed off like a motherfucker

 

screw it, im going back to work and trying to get my newly installed DOS emulator to play incredible machine

 

peace out

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm happy to see my people banding together:

 

Atheists go on the offensive

 

"British atheists have raised a pile of cash to tell Londoners there's probably no God and to get on with life"

 

"Organisers hope to run more than 5,000 ads in the city over a month, telling people: "There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life''. By last night, less than a day into fundraising efforts, pledges of more than 47,900 pounds (US$77,846.055) had rolled in, organisers told The Guardian newspaper."

 

"Writer Ariane Sherine suggested the idea in a blog carried on The Guardian website last year. She believes an atheist advertising blitz will provide a reassuring counter-message to religious slogans threatening non-Christians with hell and damnation.

 

"Ours is a fun and light-hearted message but it does have a serious point to it - that atheists want a secular country, we want a secular school and a secular government,'' she told The Guardian."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What happened to people keeping their own faith to themselves? Are those days over?

 

Oh never mind, that never happened. People have to shove their beliefs into other peoples throats B)

 

Reading from a 2,000 year old book that's been rewritten hundreds of times is fine, but please don't take everything literally. There are so many plot holes in the Bible and other religious stories that it makes Gigli look like a masterpiece.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What happened to people keeping their own faith to themselves? Are those days over?

 

Oh never mind, that never happened. People have to shove their beliefs into other peoples throats B)

 

Reading from a 2,000 year old book that's been rewritten hundreds of times is fine, but please don't take everything literally. There are so many plot holes in the Bible and other religious stories that it makes Gigli look like a masterpiece.

 

Christianity is an evangelizing faith. Christ gave us the Great Commission which said to Go Ye and teach and preach in His name. Most are not trying to shove anything down your throat, but we believe we have something lifesaving. Atheists are not that different. If you read the post above, they have a belief system (No God), they are talking about organizing, raising money and getting a message out. They probably even have meetings. Sounds like a religion to me.

 

If it offends you then just tune it out. No one can force it on you. It's totally your choice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Christianity is an evangelizing faith. Christ gave us the Great Commission which said to Go Ye and teach and preach in His name. Most are not trying to shove anything down your throat, but we believe we have something lifesaving. Atheists are not that different. If you read the post above, they have a belief system (No God), they are talking about organizing, raising money and getting a message out. They probably even have meetings. Sounds like a religion to me.

 

If it offends you then just tune it out. No one can force it on you. It's totally your choice.

 

 

"Christ gave us" no, he gave YOU what you WANT to hear. Never ever use the word "us" because you never asked my permission to include me in your conclusion. It's a bit contradictory of you to say "us" in the first place when just said "If it offends you then just tune it out. No one can force it on you. It's totally your choice." at the end of your sentence. Seriously, you WANTED to offend me. Most religious people do with their "If you don't believe US you will go to HELL".

 

Nothing really offends me, I am open minded. I am more of a logical person than anything else. Things happen for a reason and sometimes there are no reasons. However, we are here, living and breathing. If you believe in mass religion as if it was actually true then you also believe in Santa...as well as magic card tricks.

 

I am no Atheist, I don't like to label myself. Being an Atheist also puts you in a belief system, which I do not like.

 

I do lean towards Atheists more, obviously, because a logical person would NOT doubt evolution. But Atheists have their own problems.

 

Believe in what you want to believe, but don't state it out in the open. Spirituality is between him/herself.

 

And please stop quoting the Bible, we all know it's a fairy tale. It plays out like a bad Shakespearean play, anyways. There are too many falacies in there. It would be fine for you to quote it maybe 2,000 years ago, but humans have gained much knowledge about to world to take the splitting of the red sea seriously. Or even Mother Marys pregnancy without the male sperm.

 

What I'm trying to tell you is that if a mass religion such as Christianity makes you feel good about yourself, fine, do as you please. I just don't want you to "back up" your "claims" via the Bible or what Jesus said. Just makes your argument seem baseless. Being spiritual is nothing bad, we all need to work on our inner self once in a while. Some people draw, some people run, some people sleep. Some people meditate. Some people read fairy tales, ie, the Bible.

 

Now the assholes who are going to vote for McCain because he seems like a "Jesus loving Maverick" piss me off. They are bluntly using their moronic and deep rooted religious views to justify another 4-8 years of a shithole that we see coming. I mean come on, how many fuckin' times can these fucktards make the same mistake? Do they use logic or does Joe Sixpack truly has 2 brain cells? I pick the latter.

 

It's like a little kid going "La la la la, I don't want to hear it, La la la la" but the scary thing is these people are grown up.............AND THEY CAN VOTE!!! :blush:

Edited by Havok.Dzn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

lol @ we all know it's a fairy tale. nice. How is an asshole who uses their "moronic and deep rooted religious views to justify another 4-8 years of a shithole that we see coming." different from someone who so insanely insults someones beliefs? none in my opinion. take some of your own advice before you rag on someones faith....."Believe in what you want to believe, but don't state it out in the open."

 

peace.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Christianity is an evangelizing faith. Christ gave us the Great Commission which said to Go Ye and teach and preach in His name. Most are not trying to shove anything down your throat, but we believe we have something lifesaving. Atheists are not that different. If you read the post above, they have a belief system (No God)

 

Atheism isn't a 'belief system'. It just means someone who doesn't think there is a god. To paraphrase Sam Harris slightly - I don't believe in astrology, I think it's ridiculous. There is no evidence to support it's claims so I ignore it. I'm not actively a 'non-astrologer'. I don't read 'non-astrology' books, I dont base my life around 'non-astrology' - it isn't a belief system.

 

The Bible is a book. Books are written by people. People make things up. You are not demonstrating critical thought by believing in books, written 2000 years ago, by people you don't know or who can account for. You are disrespecting all reason and logic. If your car is red, but the Bible says its blue, which do you believe?

 

Out of the thousands of Gods we do and used to believe in, the many different Scriptures, Bibles, religions, myths etc... are you arrogant enough to claim that not only do you know that there is a God, that you also believe in the right one?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
lol @ we all know it's a fairy tale. nice. How is an asshole who uses their "moronic and deep rooted religious views to justify another 4-8 years of a shithole that we see coming." different from someone who so insanely insults someones beliefs? none in my opinion. take some of your own advice before you rag on someones faith....."Believe in what you want to believe, but don't state it out in the open."

 

peace.

 

I am in the middle, and I am stating my opinion. It might be a bit biased, but I do not base what I say on my own BELIEFS because I do not believe in religious figures. Maybe you're a bit daft to understand what I mean by this.

 

I wasn't actually ragging on any faith, just stating that nothing in the Bible is proven, while there is more proof on the Atheist's side. Scientific proof, that is.

 

How ironic that you just called me an asshole. It seems that you've just been offended because you fit in the category of "sheep" that I was talking about. Bahhh. Bahhh.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i'm not offended by the "sheep" term at all.....but I don't go around stating that people that don't share my beliefs are assholes and that whatever you believe in is bullshit (that's not who I am, because I have more class than that).....I call people assholes for asshole behavior.....which is what I witnessed in your post.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd have to say thats probably on the top of my list of problems with Christianity ;)

 

Christianity is an evangelizing faith. Christ gave us the Great Commission which said to Go Ye and teach and preach in His name.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
i'm not offended by the "sheep" term at all.....but I don't go around stating that people that don't share my beliefs are assholes and that whatever you believe in is bullshit (that's not who I am, because I have more class than that).....I call people assholes for asshole behavior.....which is what I witnessed in your post.

 

Dude where did I call YOU an asshole? I just called those close minded people who only vote with one eye assholes. I am talking about the Evangelical base, which, under the now resigned (hypocrite, we all know what happened) Ted Haggard, helped Bush win the election TWICE. If you fit under this category then you might be offended by my comment. If you vote for Republican, you are doing a disservice to ALL Americans. Friends don't let friends vote Republican. I mean how can you turn a blind eye towards what Bush and his cronies have been doing for the past 8 years? Oh that's right, your religion is causing you to think otherwise.

 

If you are educated and know the difference between a good candidate and reasons for voting, then you know what to do.

 

Since I have no "belief system" or "faith", you can't attack what I say because mine is just a personal and logical opinion (from my perspective). You can try to debunk it, and I will back up my claims again and again with whatever information I've learned and observed over the years. You cannot hurt me by talking negatively about what I've said before. I don't have to answer to anyone when I sleep at night, unlike some people ;)

The only option you have left in this situation is Ad hominem attacks, which the religious zealots are good at doing. Not that I'm calling you the latter. I am speaking in general terms here.

Edited by Havok.Dzn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If this thread is going to turn into "THIS I BELIEVE..." then I feel it's only fair for me to tell you what I "believe" too. Or I guess I should say what I don't believe.

 

I'm an Atheist. (not to be confused with an agnostic - someone unsure if there is a god) I don't believe there is such a thing as an omnipotent/omniscient being ruling over the world - monotheist/polytheistic or otherwise. I don't believe that when I die I'm going anywhere, I'm just not going to exist anymore. I don't believe in heaven or hell. I don't believe in Satan, unless you count Karl Rove. I don't believe I have a destiny laid out for me. I don't believe that if I'm good I will be rewarded, and if I'm bad I will be punished in the afterlife. I don't believe in luck...I believe that probability plays a bigger role in people's lives and when you make a stupid choice, you get a stupid outcome.

 

I think if you need god in your life, then that's good for YOU. But don't pretend you don't judge me because I don't share your beliefs. The religious (my grandmother whom I love dearly included) have this way of pretending that they are righteous above all others. If that's what makes YOU happy, fine. But when it comes to voting in an election - maybe you should leave your religious values where they belong...At home. And if you do...well, you just gained a lot of respect from me.

 

What chaps my ass is that religious people in this country think they need to instill some kind of forced morality upon the rest of us sinners. I'm sorry, but when I want your opinion, I'll ask for it. I know that you think it's your obligation to "save" me and others like me. But I find it so convenient that people who are "born again" (No offense Clint) are only born again when they hit rock bottom and have already gotten all their sinning done. Ok, I get it... You learned your lesson, and now want to make sure others don't make those same mistakes by putting laws into place that don't allow people basic rights. Well, I think people should be allowed to make those mistakes for themselves...

 

I don't understand the double standard that immediately comes with the religion package. Ok, so you're Christian and I'm not, so that makes you better than me because...? some things that I've asked my religious family members...and all they can do is spew scripture back at me...

 

1. Why do you think it's any of your business how gay people live their lives?

2. Why do you think that my rights as a woman has anything to do with your religious "values?"

3. What actually was the story of Immaculate Conception? (ALL of the Christians I've asked got this wrong for the record.)

4. How does voting Republican make you a better Christian? Is it all the tax cuts for the wealthy? Is it the limitations on human rights? Is it the war-mongering? What is it exactly that attracts you to it? Because I'd like to know.

5. If you're so against the government having control over your day to day life, then why do you so insistently want the government to have control over mine?

 

I just feel like this thread has gone so willy nilly that I shouldn't catch slack for this post.

Obama '08

fb

Edited by Firebetty

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Atheists are not that different. If you read the post above, they have a belief system (No God)

 

Whoah, Whoah. Who is feeding you folks this stuff?

 

Your first sentence is dead on. Second not at all.

 

Your first sentence is correct in so much as atheists and christians are EXACTLY the same when it comes to all the thousands of religions and myths in the world. We don't believe in them and we could care less if they exist or not. They are no different to us than the children's book stories that our kids read. The ONLY difference between atheists and christians is one single religions that christians hold on to.

 

Atheist is a very simple word :

 

a - without

theist - person of beliefs

 

So in the very definition of the word an atheist is without belief.

 

You may be thinking of a person that actively BELIEVES there is no god. That's not an atheist. That's a person that has a faith in the lack of existance.

 

An atheist simply hasn't been given a reason to believe in it so it doesn't affect their lives.

 

It seems that people of faith have a hard time with this fact because it's hard for them to understand how a person can have apathy towards something a believer structures their life on. So they assume they have to be AGAINST it. But that's not true.

 

Technically ALL of us are born atheists until we get we get indoctrinated into our local community's belief system. I simply haven't changed since birth. And from what I remember when I was born I'd never heard of any gods and certainly didn't BELIEVE they didn't exist.

 

That's why that bus ad says god Probably doesn't exist. Because nobody can prove that he doesn't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Semantics aside, I consider myself an atheist (since it's the easiest term to use) and I actually do NOT believe that there is a God (of any kind.) I don't have a lack of belief about it like C.Smith suggests. I think you're actually right in terms of the "dictionary defition" of atheism...but whatever.

 

We could argue all fucking day about what it means to have a belief or not in something or not, but what it comes down to is, there is no god for me, and there is for someone else.

 

(my animosity is not pointed toward you C.Smith - I'm just pissed)

 

Edit: I get mad when any religious group uses the argument that I have a "belief" in "not believing" so therefore I am the same as someone who thinks that homosexuality is a sin, or that everything was created in 7 days. WTF.

Edited by Firebetty

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...