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Tigris67

Mac or PC? for Motion Graphics?

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The Mac Pro is priced to be the same if you compare it to a similarly specced Dual Quad Xeon PC from Boxx or whatever. Actually it comes out to be cheaper in many areas. Just don't buy RAM & hard drives from Apple and you're good to go.

 

I was mostly wondering about PCs because you can shove better parts in as they become available, as opposed to having to play the guessing game with Apple over whether they'll include this or that in their next system and whether you're gonna be waiting a month or six before they do it. Like, the Core i7: maybe macworld? maybe 2nd quarter? Hard to be informed enough to make a decision about buying now/later if there's no info. They're frustratingly secretive. I appreciate the stability/dependability that apple's process provides, but I'd like to upgrade at some point, and I hate playing that game.

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Actually it comes out to be cheaper in many areas. Just don't buy RAM & hard drives from Apple and you're good to go.

 

When I priced up my 8-core I went onto the Apple site, used their online ordering system to spec the whole thing out exactly as I wanted it regardless of price, printed the spec out and hit the phones.

 

Over the course of the next three days I managed to get the same spec of mac by not buying drives and RAM from Apple and playing off the various resellers reduced by around £800 from the price on the Apple site – that's $1300. It was hard work, and after endless emails and phone calls I managed to square the deal with a pretty pissed-off sales guy. After sales service was excellent (the monitor had a glitch, they exchanged without issue).

 

Cashback!

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I was mostly wondering about PCs because you can shove better parts in as they become available, as opposed to having to play the guessing game with Apple over whether they'll include this or that in their next system and whether you're gonna be waiting a month or six before they do it. Like, the Core i7: maybe macworld? maybe 2nd quarter? Hard to be informed enough to make a decision about buying now/later if there's no info. They're frustratingly secretive. I appreciate the stability/dependability that apple's process provides, but I'd like to upgrade at some point, and I hate playing that game.

 

Intel doesn't seem to be very trustful as a partner towards Apple. They first gave them exclusivity for their "core duo" processors, which were just 32 bit versions of the core 2 duo that came out later for everybody. And now they release a new faster processor with 8 cores (that would make superb work stations) that's only available for PCs... I guess it's their revenge for the ads apple did showing intel processors as slugs

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A few years ago a graphics house got hit with a power surge during

a lightning storm. The pcs all fried, and the Macs were fine.

They're all the same. They really are.

 

i read that story in the new york times! amazing!

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i read that story in the new york times! amazing!

 

The story mostly focused on Apple's proprietary iFuses™ in their proprietary power supplies (iFusion™) mixed with the right Surge protection that all computers should be on. Dell, DARPA, and Nasa are in a joint effort to reverse-engineer Apple's secret power supplies so that the rest of the world can run on PCs without frying. This will save billions in manufacturing and untold value on saving human lives. Fascinating read.

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A few years ago a graphics house got hit with a power surge during

a lightning storm. The pcs all fried, and the Macs were fine.

They're all the same. They really are.

 

All of Zebrownie's posts put together = more intelligent than this one ^.

 

FACT

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I was mostly wondering about PCs because you can shove better parts in as they become available, as opposed to having to play the guessing game with Apple over whether they'll include this or that in their next system and whether you're gonna be waiting a month or six before they do it. Like, the Core i7: maybe macworld? maybe 2nd quarter? Hard to be informed enough to make a decision about buying now/later if there's no info. They're frustratingly secretive. I appreciate the stability/dependability that apple's process provides, but I'd like to upgrade at some point, and I hate playing that game.

 

Well there are 2 sections for Intel CPU's, one is consumer and the other one is server. The Mac Pro uses the latter. A workstation intel motherboard with workstation Xeon CPU's. Each CPU is about $900 if you buy it separately, so Apple's hardware is not that much higher than what you would get by building your own PC or buying it from Dell or whatnot.

 

Apple doesn't have a desktop machine with "consumer" CPU's, the next closest thing is the iMac and that uses laptop CPU's afaik. Most end users don't know this. They think the Mac Pro is just a regular old desktop, but it's a workstation. Even the Quad (single CPU) Mac Pro that's available right now is still a workstation level computer.

 

I would stay away from buying anything from Apple regarding RAM & Hard drives, they overcharge and they know how to make a profit from non technical people. OWC sells similar RAM that's identical to the stock ones for almost 70% less than what it costs to get it from Apple. Hard Drives are the same.

 

I really doubt Apple is ever going to put in a single consumer CPU machine out in the Mac Pro form using the Intel CPU's. The Xeon line will always be capable of using 2 physical CPU's, the consumer line does not, so it wouldn't make sense for Apple to put in a new motherboard just to offer lower end Mac Pros. Maybe Apple knows that they won't make any money out of it so that's why they don't do it?

 

But I do get your frustration. Apple is too secretive. From what I've seen after the Intel change, the PC side gets the CPU's and graphic cards the fastest, Apple usually upgrades down the line after 3-5 months, so a good 4 months is what I would give after the i7 announcement.

 

But in reality the newer i7 line is not that faster than the current Penryn line available on the current Mac Pro's. I went up from the 2007 Mac Pro to the late 2008 Mac Pro and didn't see much of an improvement, maybe 10%.

Edited by hyp3

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hey since we're on the subject, do any of you use a loaded iMac (24") or just Mac Pros?

 

I recommend a lower end Mac Pro with a 24" display :)

 

Unless space is an issue...

 

The iMacs do look cool, though, just don't expect desktop performance out of them. Also you can't even add any internal raids to it.

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Over the course of the next three days I managed to get the same spec of mac by not buying drives and RAM from Apple and playing off the various resellers

 

So does that mean you can have a reseller build the box with RAM and drives that you purchase elsewhere? That would be fantastic. And where's the wiggle room with 3rd party sellers? Is it just that you're stripping away the keyboard and mouse and installed software and all that?

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I don't think it works that way, Binky.

 

You can just get the BTO (Built to Order) option and just stick to 2GB stock ram and the lowest OS drive. When you receive the Mac Pro (They always ship BTO options) just buy 16GB or whatever from otherworldcomputing.com and buy your own hard drives. They are very easy to install.

 

Nowadays 8GB of RAM is ~$270. I paid $1,000 for 8GB 1 year ago from someone else besides Apple. :(.

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Guest Sao_Bento
hey since we're on the subject, do any of you use a loaded iMac (24") or just Mac Pros?

I've actually got a 24" iMac. It does fairly well for the stuff I'm using it for (light video editing, AE, web design). I wouldn't recommend buying one as a real, primary motion graphics or 3D powerhouse though. Again - it's about the tradeoffs.

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So does that mean you can have a reseller build the box with RAM and drives that you purchase elsewhere? That would be fantastic. And where's the wiggle room with 3rd party sellers? Is it just that you're stripping away the keyboard and mouse and installed software and all that?

 

No, each reseller had a selection of different HD and RAM brands and I simply played different resellers off each other and got them to build it. I'm not techy in the slightest so am not interested in furtling about inside my mac on anything more difficult than installing RAM.

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Yeah, I'd rather spend the time doing graphics than building computers.

I worked in a shop where pcs caught on fire routinely, apparently over clocked.

 

No, each reseller had a selection of different HD and RAM brands and I simply played different resellers off each other and got them to build it. I'm not techy in the slightest so am not interested in furtling about inside my mac on anything more difficult than installing RAM.

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The Xeon line will always be capable of using 2 physical CPU's, the consumer line does not

 

Just for the sake of accuracy, you can with a skulltrail mainboard.

 

However, most apps don't scale worth a darn across multiple cores, let alone multiple CPUs at the moment (both OSX and Win IMO)

 

edit: anyway, use what you like. The underlying hardware is all x86 anymore, and the differences in OS are down to personal taste more than anything.

Edited by 7twelve

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Just for the sake of accuracy, you can with a skulltrail mainboard.

 

However, most apps don't scale worth a darn across multiple cores, let alone multiple CPUs at the moment (both OSX and Win IMO)

 

edit: anyway, use what you like. The underlying hardware is all x86 anymore, and the differences in OS are down to personal taste more than anything.

 

 

Has anyone taken the skulltrail set up or even the quad Core i7 with hyperthreading against a MacPro yet? Would love to see the benchmarks on that.

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Has anyone taken the skulltrail set up or even the quad Core i7 with hyperthreading against a MacPro yet? Would love to see the benchmarks on that.

 

there were some with a ST against a single quad, and the benefits were marginal in most application. It really comes down to most consumer (and pro for that matter) software outside of the server/db and virtualization worlds just not scaling on a 1:1 yet

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I think Beau & Chris summed it up pretty nicely, and I think this thread is useless just like Joe the Plumber thread.

 

Just use what you feel comfortable with. Neither platform will preform magic for you.

 

Quote from John Lennon:

"I'm an artist, and if you give me a tuba, I'll bring you something out of it."

Edited by hyp3

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