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Guest govinda

Current state of motion graphics (was EXOPOLIS)

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Guest govinda

Color them 'fresh.' Very minty fresh. You can almost smell the Spring colors on their reel.

 

From a shambolic wedge of far south Glendale, far north Silverlake, rather like the LA version of Passaic, New Jersey.

 

I suspect they're a young company. I'm a fan.

 

http://www.exopolis.com

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Guest pasto

Is it me or everything here (in this huge ressource that represent mograph's reel and portfolio section) is nearly the same style ?

For example this reel is really beautiful but I have the bad impression to have seen it one hundred times before, this year... no real technical or artistic innovation.

 

I loose inspiration myself these days.

I guess I must find it everywhere but in motion graphics (litterature, experimental movies, comics book, print work...)

 

pasto, a little bored

:)

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Guest firemind

You are right, unfortunately motion graphics is like other forms of design where a lot of studios adhere to the latest trends, and then someone will do something fresh, that'll get copied to death etc. etc.

 

In an ideal world there'd be constant innovation all the time, but unfortunately we live on planet earth :P

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Guest govinda

They used to have individual clips, and I have them on my drive. Which means they'll probably update the site (which makes me wonder...when sites change, does that merit a repost of the thread? Too much work?).

 

Someday, someone out there will look at Anselm Kiefer, or a clothing designer, or a Frank Gehry, and they'll figure out some way to translate that into graphics. But if it's like graphic design, there will always be someone like Charles Anderson (or Hal Riney in US advertising), cloning out the same look/feel for 15 years because it enables you to buy an island in the Pacific with all the shekels you make. We all look at the same stuff too much, and think that the rules are established. We get hemmed in. But I love seeing the baby-step differences between reels all the same. Already there's a new kind of 'roughness' to 3D edges starting to come into play, like psyop and another reel posted here the other day. As long as it isn't always forming graffiti, great. Saimon Chow's look is definitely different than other BNS work. Of such tiny increments is evolution starting.

 

Another thing: this is still a new field. It hasn't gone 'hacky' like other graphic fields--yet. In other words, these are the GOOD days. In the future, creative directors will have gotten older and more tired, and innovation will be hard-earned (like it is in advertising now, with so many hacks at CD and especially associate CD levels).

 

-govinda, pensive

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Guest igorschmigor

yo, firemind and pasto, you both sound so negative. What's wrong with trends and fashions? What would the late 60's/early 70's have been without the colourfull, psychadelic long-haired hippie-trend and the late 70's/early 80's without the disco-trend? I think maybe you just have a reel-overload, after looking at about 150 sites that have already been posted in this section with an average of about -let's say- 10 movies per site it's not surprising that you get the feeling that you've seen it all and exopolis can't impress you that much anymore. I don't think the studios posted here at mograph just copy a trend, they might be heading in a similar direction using the same software and thereby discovering the same techniques, but most of them found their own niche, their own flavor. I must say i am very inspired by lots of the stuff i have seen on the sites, there is a lot of great and inovative work there. Like motiontheory's nike presto commercials or the stuff for HP for example. Pasto, you definetely do wrong to many people at many studios, if you say that everything that represents motion graphics here on this board is nearly the same style. How could you possibly compare pleix to iconologic to freefordesign to motiontheory to bigstudios? Ok, freefordesign uses abstract 3d, we've seen that before, but Kandinsky wasn't the first one to invent abstract 2d either, know what i mean? You don't have to reinvent the wheel everytime.

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Guest pasto

Well Igor it is a question of Scale I guess. I am quite negative I must admit. I guess I saw too much things at the same time. It is due to my own difficulty these times to be creative...

I really like all the work you mentionned but I find it not innovative. I would like (I might dream !) to be surprised as the first time I saw MK12 productions or imaginary forces Some years ago.

I will have another look. I would like to surprise myself too ! I don't want to follow the trend anymore ! I am not a number, I am a free maaaaaaaan. sorry.

 

pasto

 

:D

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Guest firemind

Moved this thread over here to give it some more exposure. Had to manually make a new topic in Reels tho, hope you don't mind Govinda. A 'clone thread' feature would have been nice.

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Guest firemind

OK, now for the actual reply.

 

Govinda, if there's new stuff on a site, simply reply to the associated post, that will push it to the top so people can take notice (just tried it with mk12 which was wayyyyy at the bottom).

 

Igor has a point, it's kinda like movie reviewers who end up with a jaded and cynical attitude towards every new film they watch. Watching too much stuff at once can kill the enthusiasm, which is exactly the opposite of what I wanted with this site :?

 

One thing to keep in mind is that we, the ppl doing this stuff, are at the forefront, there's a huge group of people (companies/employers/kids in highschool) out there that don't even know this exists, what it could do for them, etc. It would suck if we get burnt out/jaded before it reaches their collective consciousnesses.

 

Quick little anecdote (heheh); in the late 90's I was doing my internship at a graphic design/prepress company, where one of my colleagues left to form a multimedia company (this being pre-internet-bubble-burst ofcourse, when wide eyed young ppl could still follow their dreams :P ).

 

He showed his new company's 3D reel and some web work to our boss and our boss didn't understand what it was, how it could be of any use to anyone and how on earth they were going to sell that to anyone. So cut to present day, when said prepress company ofcourse has a site (awful tho it is) and are even making sites themselves (eeeek!) and said multimedia company no longer exists, having held out for nearly 5 years in the trenches of multimedia.

 

My point? Govinda is right saying this a new field, now is the time to be innovative and explore every inch of what this field can be. A few more years and your average DTP/webstudio will be doing this stuff, raping it for all it's worth.

 

So it's a bit to soon to all start doing the same unified thing, don't you agree? Diversity, experimentation...more please!

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Guest govinda

Firemind, love the story. Very true. But I can relate to what pasto is saying because my own creative director, who's been in this biz for seven years, starting at the fabled Pittard/Sullivan, says exactly the same thing pasto says. It's very true, especially to veterans, that this explosion in motion graphics has meant a lot of same-same around the world.

 

I see a LOT of hope though. I got into this business under two years ago simply because I discovered Brand New School. Their look was something I'd never seen before. I got Cinema and dove into design. That was just pre 9/11. At that point, MK12 had hardly done anything. Now, if you look at BNS's new stuff, you can hardly recognize that it's the same company. They've ditched the flat-3D look, layered things up, and gone crazy in about five directions at once (including a lot of Kansas City-inspired mask moves), and of course MK12 did most of their great work in just the past 18 months.

 

We're just dipping a fork in a river and trying to spear the water. The world is moving really fast, making all these reels just snapshots. Patience...

 

govinda

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Guest igorschmigor

Well Pasto, you're negative but at least you have big ambitions. I believe that sometimes great work is born from just being tired of the way things are. I wish you good luck, inspirations and bright ideas. Me too i'd like to have an MK12 experience at least once a month but of course MK12s don't grow on trees. I still don't complain cause like govinda said, there are many little baby steps, design never really stands still. You don't need to radically stand out of the crowd to be more than a number.

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Guest jasfish

But really, when's the last time you saw something truly original? Almost everything has been done before, it's just giving it a new twist, something different and unexpected that can help take an average design and make it much better. That's the trick, and I wish it was as easy as it sounds. I too struggle trying to give things that little different hook. It's a little tougher working under the constrains of broadcast design (specifically the commercial world), but I think it can be done. At least that's what I'm always striving for.

 

Cheers,

 

jasfish

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Guest igorschmigor

But really, when's the last time you created something truly original? Don't ask what design can do for you but what you can do for design. When a new style comes up, then what? It will 'inspire' you and you'll be the ones copying it. But y'all just blame the others, those are the imitators, those are the people raping a style for all its worth, while you yourself are all just sitting there waiting for the next train to jump on. Pasto had this 'insight' that he has to look at other things than motion graphics to find inspiration. Duh! Of course!!! What did he expect? Once he found it in motion graphics it's too late because then it's already been done.

 

cheers,

 

Igor

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Guest igorschmigor

wow, i got carried away there. I'm just not a big fan of people that criticize others as if they could do it much better. If none if the things you seen on those 140-something pages is innovative enough to you then do it better. If you can't then you're really just dissing yourself by critisizing them. Like in the bible: he who is free of guilt shall throw the first stone.

You see, if you have a close look you will realize that todays style is really a mix of at least ten different styles (45 degrees angles, abstract 3D, 70s retro-style, abstract 2D, 2D in 3D space, grungy-cutout-thresholdfilter-look, silhouettes, flowing organic shapes...) and few of these have been created by just one person. Many people have contributed to it, step by step. It grows slowly like a flower. Watch a flower every second and you'll have the feeling that nothing is happening, watch it every week and you'll see the changes. In design you might have to look every year or every two years to see the changes. You say it's all been done before. Yes, this year and maybe the year before. But five years ago we had quite a different style in the media, darker, more sinister, less flat, a lot of glows and blurs. Do you remember the one day when it all suddenly became the flat 2D in 3D space vector happycolor style? That day never existed and all changes came in little steps. And they still come. Be patient, don't rush it.

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Guest igorschmigor

oh and by the way, the last time i saw something truly original was yellow submarine. It really is a question of scale, but you shouldn't raise the bars much higher for others than you can jump yourself. So until i create the yellow submarine of the new millenium i'll say that pleix's "bleip-clicks" or psyops work was the last truly original work i saw and that was only a few weeks ago (that i saw it, not that they've created it, no idea when they made it).

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Guest pasto

Well Igor You have got quite clear ideas on thi subject !

I guess you are right about changes, very hard to tell when they occur. But this sort of situation could happen when there is no real creativity.

 

Your argumentation leads me to that question : Is there a known sudden change in recent graphic design history ? Yes there was some, something like : this film came out with a really original style that nobody ever saw before. I am thinking about Seven's opening titles (Kyle Cooper) here, don't you think ? It was like a bomb. Very sudden and original. copied a million times. I am sure you can find Cooper's inspiration somewhere, but it was nevertheless an irruption, a sudden change, a real new thing/concept/mix, in french we say "trouvaille".

 

it is nice talking to you guys, excuse my poor english though.

pasto

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Guest igorschmigor

yes, you're right, there are sudden changes from time to time. But with the internet we see a lot more and the influences are becoming more evident than they used to while it gets less evident who was the first one to do it because trends spread so much faster than they used to. Nevertheless the changes aren't less radical than they used to be. I don't know who invented the abstract 3d-style and when it happened, maybe 2advanced, or who was the first one to make extensive use of the pixel-look, maybe eboy, or the flat vector-look, maybe wallpaper-magazine. But all these are radical changes and they all occured within the last few years and didn't introduce themselves with one big bang like the seven-film titles. I don't know when the new flow came into motion graphics like in the openings for justice league at brandnewschool, but that seems rather new to me and i think it will have a big influence on design in the next few months, it's actually already starting to spread like a virus. So, really i don't feel like there's a standstill in design.

 

(i wonder if someone at Exopolis is following this discussion)

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Guest jasfish

No need to go into attack mode, dude. Did I say it's bad design? No. All I said it wasn't truly original. So what? I'm inspired by design/great art/the world around me. I strive to create as good as design as I possibly can. I'm not knocking other design/designers so don't knock me. You don't know me and I don't appreciate a comment like "But really, when's the last time you created something truly original?". Never, probably. But that doesn't me I don't try.

 

Cheers,

 

jasfish

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Guest jasfish

And the last thing I saw truly original -- the first Matrix. It blew my mind.

 

"It really is a question of scale, but you shouldn't raise the bars much higher for others than you can jump yourself."

 

When did this turn into a discussion about my skills, whatever you perceive those to be? You don't know me, so don't try to put words or meanings into what I said. I don't appreciate it.

 

As for raising the bar higher -- so what? Isn't that what we all want. Why don't you want to see greatness? I do, whether it's design or sports. I can't run a 10-second 100 meters but I shouldn't want to raise the bar for others to do that? What!?!?!?!? I can't do design that will stand the test of time so I shouldn't want to see others do that? That makes no sense at all.

 

Besides, nowhere did I challenge the skills or design talents of anyone. I merely talked about true originality. Don't mistake that for criticizing today's design, because that's not what I said.

 

Cheers,

 

jasfish

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Guest igorschmigor

the thing about scale was aimed at pasto. I'm back to normal mode. I'm sorry i attacked you, it's just that i have the feeling we are looking at some of the best mograph of the world and everybody here is like "so what"? Yes, me too i suck at sports but like to watch good sports on tv. But when i watch the worlds best players play against each other i won't say "ah, come on, isn't there someone who can do better than that?"

After rereading your post, i admit i was unfair to you, jasfish. ignore what i said

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Guest jasfish

No problem, Igor. I really do appreciate all the great work here, but that doesn't mean I'm not anxious to see something mind-blowing cool.

 

Perhaps we are getting jaded by seeing so much great work, but when you see something different, it's a great feeling. Even something as simple as "The Kid Remains in the Picture" and the way they treated still photos (which has already been ripped off a lot). In case anyone is wondering it's a technique where they take a still, cut out part of the scene, clone the background to make it seamless and then put a camera move on it, really quite striking and innovative I think. Maybe it's just baby steps, but I enjoy it and look forward to the next Matrix moment, Seven titles moment, etc...

 

Cheers,

 

jasfish

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Guest Forevercoolin

Wow finally a forum that really discusses the state of design... :D

 

I agree with Igor the design industry changes in small steps not big leaps. The internet and online reels has made it possible for us to see some of the top designers work almost as soon as its delivered to the client and sometimes see many of them at the same time like here in mograph. Not only can we see the work once but we can sit and analyze it frame by frame... That'll make anybody jaded!! I remember when the only way to see others work was either calling direct for a reel or waiting for the BDA conference to release there tapes.. I almost pooped my pants when I saw Pittard Sullivans work for the first time.. So go out and look to the clouds see what there designing.. As far as the Se7en titles go I don't think that was a bomb it was more of a change in mediums. Long before Se7en top print designers of that time (David Carson) were already using similar typography techniques and textures. I'm not trying to take anything away from Kyle Cooper he was able to bring those still images to life but it was'nt completely original .

 

Three things I think we're over looking is technology, clients, and budgets. These things can either help or hamper our creativity. Without the right technology or budget the creative is limited. Without a smart client its really hard to do great work. Thats why I love things like the Untitled series by Belief which is were I first saw MK12's work and I cant see that style be marketable to many clients at that time. But they had a medium that allowed them some freedom and today we see variations of that same style applied too all sorts of products sometimes it works sometimes not. We can look to the Attik and see where one style (as great as it was) can put you out of business. Once you get pigeonhole to one style by your clients you become a one trick pony and it can all end real fast. Especially when everybody is doing the same style.

I think what we all need to remember is that we're designers not fine artist this business is about ratings and sales our work enhances images and sells products so don't take it so personal.

 

 

WOW thats the most I've ever written in any forum.... I should get back to work.

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Guest jasfish

speaking of the Attik, whatever happened to them? I used to see their work everywhere. Are they downsizing or did they switch to something else? I don't see much broadcast design from them anymore. They definitely had THE coolest look for awhile.

 

jasfish

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Guest Forevercoolin

Attik

Last I heard there down to a handfull of people and lost all of the key people incluing one of the partners. Who I believe started a new company in the UK.

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