Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
enternamehere

Clients that don't pay

Recommended Posts

I'm all up for a class action in regards to Ramez. Kinda curious what are the benefits of a class action? Are you in Australia?

 

 

I went through the legal process.

 

paid the collection agency $700 for initial legal process.

paid another $350 for court proceedings

will pay 350 for sheriff fees (cant afford to do the bankcruptcy proceeding they were recommending, its 1500 for that i think. so well try sheriff first, if he wont budge then i have no choice)

 

i think its not the money anymore.. its about doing the right thing. i believe Ramez already was blacklisted from australian in front - where i got the job. There has to be a sense of justice, even if costs a lot of money on my end... legal process is such a pain in Australia... back where i came from, i usually bring my friends and a few relo's to his place and ask him for payment UPFRONT!

 

I cant believe he went on this no-paying rampage with so many people! He should be jailed!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

knowthyclient.blogspot.com - I just whacked this up now - PLEASE PLEASE re-send the OPs and complaints directly to this blog via the contact form and they'll get posted up in big, bright fucking letters!

 

I need to clarify a few points before this happens, though. I don't want to receive a cease-and-desist in the mail, nor do I want to appear in court for any reason, so, whether or not I get your name and address, I will not and cannot publish your identity on this page.

 

 

Submission guidelines are thus: You specify the name, address, and website URL of the company (stops mistaken identity). You detail accurately your complaint, and anything that gets my ass spanked will be omitted with discretion. I guess naming names is a bit slanderous but some people are so heartless towards freelancers that I think they deserve to hang in the town stocks, so please provide the name of the person responsible for you missing your credit card repayments....

 

I could email the company concerned for a response but I really don't think it's a wise idea to get involved, so each listing will appear as a company listing with complaints listed beneath it.

 

Users can rate, comment, and add value to the listings, with the added benefit that the companies themselves can appeal the accusations against them.

 

Because these claims are all true, and these companies genuinely are run by spineless wankers, it's unlikely that I'd see any aggressive litigious action unless these people think they can effectively annul their liability to pay their invoices.

 

So bring it on. I wish this had existed before I started out. If enough companies are listed, it'll turn into a client rating site instead of a blacklist - and that's a damn good idea!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Sao_Bento

knowthyclient.blogspot.com - I just whacked this up now - PLEASE PLEASE re-send the OPs and complaints directly to this blog via the contact form and they'll get posted up in big, bright fucking letters!

Seems sketchy, because the defense to a slander accusation is that the person who said whatever was said has to believe that it's true. Slander, in the US, is saying something defamatory about someone when you know that it is not true. Defending against a slander suit requires the identification of the person making the accusation. Without that link, you are effectively slandering people because you don't know that the the people making the accusations believe that they are true. I'm not a lawyer, but I don't that is going to work out well for you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I went through the legal process.

 

paid the collection agency $700 for initial legal process.

paid another $350 for court proceedings

will pay 350 for sheriff fees (cant afford to do the bankcruptcy proceeding they were recommending, its 1500 for that i think. so well try sheriff first, if he wont budge then i have no choice)

 

i think its not the money anymore.. its about doing the right thing. i believe Ramez already was blacklisted from australian in front - where i got the job. There has to be a sense of justice, even if costs a lot of money on my end... legal process is such a pain in Australia... back where i came from, i usually bring my friends and a few relo's to his place and ask him for payment UPFRONT!

 

I cant believe he went on this no-paying rampage with so many people! He should be jailed!

 

Ouch mans, that sucks.

Thought I might post this for anyone in Australia, who seems to be having bad luck with dodge clients who don't pay. Its for the A.C.T, but the info should be relevant regardless of which state your in (I dare say searching around the artslaw.com.au website will find the right info for which state). Its for the small claims court, which covers cost between $2000-$10000, which would cover most folk, I assume. Amounts under this I do believe you can right off on tax(somehow), amounts over $10000 are the domain of the magistraights court.

 

www.artslaw.com.au/_documents/files/DebtRecovery_ACT.pdf

 

The basic jist of it is, what the due process is and what you need to do, to lodge an application with the court. It also implies that you don't use a lawyer, I justify this point by this line " You may wish to

be represented by a lawyer in the Court, but most people choose not to do so. Solicitors' costs

are not recoverable, even if you are successful"

Last time I looked at taking someone to small claims it was to cost $38 to lodge an application in the A.C.T., that was about 5 years ago now. I vaguely recall reading somewhere in the last year or so its about $60-70 these days.

Anyway, hope this info helps in someway to someone.

 

P..S. I'm happy to rant in more detail if you guys want to go legal with this Ramez guy, just ask.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ouch mans, that sucks.

Thought I might post this for anyone in Australia, who seems to be having bad luck with dodge clients who don't pay. Its for the A.C.T, but the info should be relevant regardless of which state your in (I dare say searching around the artslaw.com.au website will find the right info for which state). Its for the small claims court, which covers cost between $2000-$10000, which would cover most folk, I assume. Amounts under this I do believe you can right off on tax(somehow), amounts over $10000 are the domain of the magistraights court.

 

www.artslaw.com.au/_documents/files/DebtRecovery_ACT.pdf

 

The basic jist of it is, what the due process is and what you need to do, to lodge an application with the court. It also implies that you don't use a lawyer, I justify this point by this line " You may wish to

be represented by a lawyer in the Court, but most people choose not to do so. Solicitors' costs

are not recoverable, even if you are successful"

Last time I looked at taking someone to small claims it was to cost $38 to lodge an application in the A.C.T., that was about 5 years ago now. I vaguely recall reading somewhere in the last year or so its about $60-70 these days.

Anyway, hope this info helps in someway to someone.

 

P..S. I'm happy to rant in more detail if you guys want to go legal with this Ramez guy, just ask.

 

 

I'm located in Melbourne. I actually told the client as well but they couldnt do anything. The clietn was supposed to be a friend of Ramez's and according to him several of Ramez's friends are also chasing him for money.

In order to do a class action according to my husband you'd want to have several people wanting to claim around 7-10k+ from Ramez to make it worthwhile purusing as a group as it'd be a lesser risk per person.

 

The risk of course is that he's flagged as bankrupt and doesnt pay. I dont know what his financial situation is like.

 

The legal costs would be claimable only if we're successful.

 

Can you believe he sent me an SMS last year wishing me a merry christmas?

Edited by nashoba

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel like this can be a added to the mograph wiki in some way. I really think we should make an effort to make the mograph wiki more viable.

 

I agree.

 

Mete, your post and some other comments on this thread also made me think of some other related things that I feel should be mentioned. So I hope you don't mind me including them in this response.

 

A couple of other things, generally speaking:

 

It would also be nice to see a list of companies on mograph wiki that are going to expect you to work a twelve to sixteen hour day for a flat day rate.

 

That way people would at least know what they were getting into before hand; if they didn't ask before hand because they either didn't think to due to inexperience or really needed work or were just too scared to ask for one reason or another.

 

I mean if as a freelancer, twelve to sixteen hour days as the norm don't bother you, then that's great. I'm not saying there is necessarily anything wrong with those kind of hours as along as you know what you're getting into before hand so you can charge accordingly.

 

As for design shops and post houses paying freelancers half up front, I've never heard of anyone successfully getting that out of a shop. Directly out of a client with a signed contract, sure, that's pretty standard, but not out of a motion design shop or an editorial / post house. The only thing I've ever seen either a motion design shop or a post house do is present freelancers with THEIR work agreement and I would encourage people to actually read those before signing them.

 

I might add that although it is difficult sometimes, especially when you're new to the field and it is a place you really want to work, don't let a pa or even a producer pressure you into signing something without reading it.

 

I've had some places present me with work agreements with clauses in them that state if they decided they weren't happy with the work, then they didn't have to pay. This has actually happened to me two or three times at different places. In case anyone who is new is wondering- and I say that sincerely, that's not how it works. When I bring it up, the clause gets taken out, sometimes followed by an "oh wow, I didn't know that was in there" out of the person in charge of distributing said work agreements. Really?! -_-

 

One place even presented me with a contract with such a clause AFTER the work was done and told me they weren't going to process my invoice until I signed it. I ended up getting the matter resolved but it was more hassle than I wanted to deal with, not to mention putting me in an awkward position.

 

So please read those work agreements and "contracts" that some places require you to sign and do not let people throw bogus work agreements at you after the work has been done either.

 

xT

 

ps- thanks for the heads up about Bigstar, Mete.

Edited by tvp

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Sao_Bento

Great idea tvp. I've definitely been in the same situation of having to have them make modifications to the contract based on their completely unreasonable all inclusive legal language.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Can you believe he sent me an SMS last year wishing me a merry christmas?

 

 

He sent me a fake receipt for a transaction he aparantly made paying my what he owed and then asked for me to do another job for him. I said i'd wait for the money to clear. It didn't...

 

Maybe i should've just forwarded over to the commonwealth bank...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He sent me a fake receipt for a transaction he aparantly made paying my what he owed and then asked for me to do another job for him. I said i'd wait for the money to clear. It didn't...

 

Maybe i should've just forwarded over to the commonwealth bank...

 

 

He wrote me 2 cheques that were returned to me - they were unfunded.

 

I think from all the stuff said here, he' knows his stuff and he's done it so many times...

 

He's a con-artist...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yeah that's some really nice stuff. The stuff i did with him in on his website =P 108-103

 

[edit]: also thought i'd notify you guys that typing in "Ramez Gabra" into google gives 2 results on the first page with a link to this thread and a thread on Australia inFront.

Edited by vozzz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems sketchy, because the defense to a slander accusation is that the person who said whatever was said has to believe that it's true. Slander, in the US, is saying something defamatory about someone when you know that it is not true. Defending against a slander suit requires the identification of the person making the accusation. Without that link, you are effectively slandering people because you don't know that the the people making the accusations believe that they are true. I'm not a lawyer, but I don't that is going to work out well for you.

 

Smart words sao. I wanted to start a site similar to this years ago. It never materialized for this exact reason. We were afraid of slandering companies. Or the companies claiming that we were slandering their image even if it was justified or true. Although I think a site or database like this should exist; it sure does seem sketchy when you take responsibility running and maintaining the site.

 

the guy from ripoffreport.com I believe had many lawsuits against him. He starting bribing companies saying he would remove comments on his site for a fee. That certainly got him in trouble.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Once again, hiring an attorney, and threatening court will go a long way. I got ripped off hugely, and was jacked around by their attorney for a year, until we finally, reluctantly hired an attorney and prepared for court.

Attorneys will not respect you. They will respect another attorney.

Edited by tomcat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Smart words sao. I wanted to start a site similar to this years ago. It never materialized for this exact reason. We were afraid of slandering companies. Or the companies claiming that we were slandering their image even if it was justified or true. Although I think a site or database like this should exist; it sure does seem sketchy when you take responsibility running and maintaining the site.

 

the guy from ripoffreport.com I believe had many lawsuits against him. He starting bribing companies saying he would remove comments on his site for a fee. That certainly got him in trouble.

 

I agree with everyone who has advised that stating actual opinions about companies would be unfair and folly, not to mention unprofessional. So much of this business is about personalities and how they mesh. It is unfortunate that in some cases the personality aspect equates into bias that prevents some people from getting work at some places, but two wrongs don't make a right so to speak.

 

So we wouldn't want a site that has people, saying things anonymously like "these guys were jerks, my friends don't like them because they had a disagreement" or things of that ilk.

 

I think it would be fair to have one of those fill in the bubble type interfaces on the Wiki that asks how many hours the average day was, for example a choice between 8-10, 10-12, 12+, whether or not they paid within 30 days or sooner or if they paid after 30 days or not at all and what the work environment was like. For example a choice for the environment bubbles between quiet, medium amount of noise, noisy. Was there a comfortable chair provided, yes or no and adequate lighting available if needed / wanted, yes or no? Was it clean, yes or no? Was there air conditioning / temperature control available in the facility? Those are pretty objective things that I think everyone could benefit from knowing about a place they may have never worked before. It would also be nice to have the question "was the work expectation realistic for your level and rate, yes or no"; but that might be branching too far into the realm of opinion. Another question could be whether or not they honored the full booking, yes or no. However, that one may also be a little too convoluted to ask, since the answer of 'no' could be either party's fault and a matter of opinion at that. The other stuff is pretty cut and dried; to me at least. I mean you either worked a twelve to sixteen hour day as the norm or you didn't. They either paid you in a timely manner or they didn't. It was quiet or it wasn't. They gave you a decent chair and adequate lighting if you didn't want to work in a dark or dim environment, or they didn't.

 

The answers could then be tallied by the database, so for example you have Shop A, out of 1200 people surveyed, 95% said they were paid on time. Shop A also had 95% of the people say the hours were 12+ a day on the average day. 75% said there was a medium amount of noise. Etc. Sort of like that rating system Amazon has for third party vendors, only without the personal comment section and the five star rating system. The fill in the bubble section interface would keep it objective. The system wouldn't say if a place was good, bad, had five stars or one. It would just say that this percentage of people said they got paid on time, this percentage said the hours were 12+ or 8-10 hours a day or whatever the case may be.

 

This is just an idea. It may be too far a stretch regarding slander even with such limited questions as to work environment, hours worked per day on average and whether or not you got paid on time or at all. I'd have to research the law in the State of California and the Fed a little more regarding that sort of thing to know for sure.

 

This isn't the first thread on these kind of abuses though, so that is why I'm taking the time to put some ideas out there that might be objective solutions as to how we as a professional community can provide impetus to improve the working conditions for all of us, many of whom are freelancers, in an industry that predominantly uses the freelance business model to function and survive.

 

It would be great to hear other thoughts on the matter.

 

tvp

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Sao_Bento

I think it would be fair to have one of those fill in the bubble type interfaces on the Wiki . . .

tvp

That seems like a much better approach.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yeah that's some really nice stuff. The stuff i did with him in on his website =P 108-103

 

[edit]: also thought i'd notify you guys that typing in "Ramez Gabra" into google gives 2 results on the first page with a link to this thread and a thread on Australia inFront.

 

Well no surprise that he's not at the location on his website 1one.com.au.

 

Just need to find some other address that he's actually at now! luckily ramez isnt a common name hehe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well no surprise that he's not at the location on his website 1one.com.au.

 

Just need to find some other address that he's actually at now! luckily ramez isnt a common name hehe.

 

times like these the electoral roll can be your best friend

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

really he's not at his office on Buckingham anymore? Did you go there and check physically?

 

Also i realized you can add comments to website in google....

 

i think the sneaky rat is working for freeman international now. And he continues to not pay people.

 

you can see him doing the shoot for the freedom festival posters on facebook.

Edited by vozzz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been burnt by Ramez Gabra from 1one too. Beware of this guy, he's a serial scam artist.

 

 

He owes me $3500. And pulled a lot of the same tricks with me that he did with others.

 

First he faked a receipt. Then he claimed he entered the wrong bank details, and assured me he'd retransfer the cash - twice. Of course, no surprise that it didn't appear in my account.

 

Once he'd received the work, he stopped answering phone calls. Occasionally he'd return an SMS, apologising for not getting back to me claiming he'd been in hospital. And assuring me that some guy Andre was going to call about getting outstanding invoice fixed up. Again, no surprise that no answer came.

 

After Ramez talked us down on price, asked us to do a number of tasks outside of the scope of the project for free, he disappears when he gets what he wants. What a scammer.

 

I wish I'd seen this post before commencing work with Ramez.

 

I'm going to sue Ramez. Anyone interested in filing a suit with me, feel free to contact me. This guy needs to be pulled up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, he just continues on with this ey?

 

Maybe i should just have my serbian friends have him put in a container and shipped of to some wonderful country where he can be sold for organs. Obviously all proceeds would go to compensating people he stood =D

 

Merry Christamas!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been burnt by Ramez Gabra from 1one too. Beware of this guy, he's a serial scam artist.

 

 

He owes me $3500. And pulled a lot of the same tricks awith me that he did with others.

 

First he faked a receipt. Then he claimed he entered the wrong bank details, and assured me he'd retransfer the cash - twice. Of course, no surprise that it didn't appear in my account.

 

Once he'd received the work, he stopped answering phone calls. Occasionally he'd return an SMS, apologising for not getting back to me claiming he'd been in hospital. And assuring me that some guy Andre was going to call about getting outstanding invoice fixed up. Again, no surprise that no answer came.

 

After Ramez talked us down on price, asked us to do a number of tasks outside of the scope of the project for free, he disappears when he gets what he wants. What a scammer.

 

I wish I'd seen this post before commencing work with Ramez.

 

I'm going to sue Ramez. Anyone interested in filing a suit with me, feel free to contact me. This guy needs to be pulled up.

 

 

Im in the process of collections with him. Let me know if you want to team up with putting this guy in his right place - in a non-mobster way of course...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

tvp that survey is a great idea. mographwiki probably won't be able to handle something like that unfortunately. but i could see it working as a standalone thing. not unlike bran's motion design census.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Surprisingly Edgeworx. I know, for a large pretty well know company not to pay is rather strange, but after multiple reminders and invoices, nothing for almost a year!

 

I have also had problems with Edgeworx -- repeated promises to pay but no actual payment. I am now preparing either to use a lawyer or to send it to collection. Collection will damage their credit rating, so they may take that more seriously.

 

I urge freelancers and contractors to pursue bad clients. These companies are making money off our labor and then pocketing our share. It should be criminal. Sadly, the law does not give us much protection.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...