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Apple removes shake from online store

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As someone who never used Shake, I'm curious: was there anything about Shake that made it special compared to its competitors? That is, was there anything that was especially intuitive or innovative about its workflow, tools, or functions?

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I have never used it either, but it seemed to me like a clone of Fusion.

 

I had been under the impression that Nuke was dead since the release of Intel macs. I had read somewhere that they dropped the price by 90% and stopped offering support. The rumor at the time was that they were going to merge shake with motion to create an After Effects competitor that could be included with the FCP suite.

 

I would like to know what the real skinny is on this as well.

 

 

Edit*: There is a pretty good discussion about this going on at vfxtalk, here.

Edited by AromaKat

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I guess they had the whole "shake your node to disconnect it from other nodes" thing going on...aside from that, not really. Autodesk pretty much owns the node based compositing market now.

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I would like to know what the real skinny is on this as well.

 

Probably with their offer to give access to the source code for a certain fee they were hoping that someone would keep it alive, but clearly that hasn't happened. Studios simply have switched over to Nuke. Had it happened the way they possibly imagined, they probably would have turned it into an open source project, with the studios being the "maintainers" and others contributing. That opportunity seems now missed. Even if they still released the code, it is doubtful whether someone would pick it up and bring it up to snuff... Anyway, they made too many mistakes with Shake. It certainly neither has helped them to sell Macs nor did it ever generate a user base big enough in its own right.

 

Mylenium

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Guest Sao_Bento

That's funny, I just got some Lynda.com email yesterday about their new releases, and one of them was about Shake. I found it hard to believe that anyone is still creating training material for that product.

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Studios simply have switched over to Nuke.

 

Was going to say this. With both Weta and ILM buying site licenses for Nuke, I think it's pretty well established and has really contributed to the (apparent) death of Shake.

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I used Shake a bit and found it a nice, node based, solution for the Mac platform. I'd say that this was its main strength. Availability for OS X, nice interface, and relatively inexpensive for a high quality node based compositor.

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I still don't understand why Apple bought Shake and then killed it so quickly. They haven't migrated any of the technology over to any of their other products. There were rumors of a new heavy compositing app, but that seems to have been just rumors.

 

Did they just want the "shake your noodle" technology for the iPhone?

 

Or did they just fuck up?

 

When Apple bought Shake, affordability was not one of its strengths. It was several grand a seat. The main reason it was so popular was that well organized, easy to use and it was completely scriptable. Maya became popular for the same reason. The TD's at big houses could get under the hood, write their own custom hooks into the GUI, create custom tools and integrate it into their pipeline.

 

In a way, it was the antithesis of the Apple model. A suped-up, hot-rod GTO versus a BMW. Both have their advantages, but they were always a bad match for each other.

Edited by finegrit

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Shake was just there first, before Nuke and Fusion, so studios had there pipelines already setup to work with Shake. Altough I think Nuke is better than shake, a lot of studios still use Shake, simply because their already setup to work with it.

 

I'd say The Foundry owns the node-based comp market, not Autodesk.

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Yea exactly shake was THE nodal compositor alternative to the FFI systems. So it was massively picked up by major studios, then it got semi killed and was picked up 10x fold by every one else it was THE compositor for vfx. Then nuke and fusion started to take root and they did take a lot of people away from shake little by little.

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Guest Sao_Bento

I still don't understand why Apple bought Shake and then killed it so quickly. They haven't migrated any of the technology over to any of their other products. There were rumors of a new heavy compositing app, but that seems to have been just rumors.

 

Did they just want the "shake your noodle" technology for the iPhone?

 

Or did they just fuck up?

 

When Apple bought Shake, affordability was not one of its strengths. It was several grand a seat. The main reason it was so popular was that well organized, easy to use and it was completely scriptable. Maya became popular for the same reason. The TD's at big houses could get under the hood, write their own custom hooks into the GUI, create custom tools and integrate it into their pipeline.

 

In a way, it was the antithesis of the Apple model. A suped-up, hot-rod GTO versus a BMW. Both have their advantages, but they were always a bad match for each other.

I believe they have migrated a lot of the technology into Motion, it's just not in it's previous form anymore.

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I still don't understand why Apple bought Shake and then killed it so quickly. They haven't migrated any of the technology over to any of their other products.

 

Well, apparently Motion was done by the people also creating Shake as were pieces of Aperture. The technology or at least the knowledge behind it has been put to use. Still, both are failures on their own as Apple wasn't dedicated enough to them, either. So in essence Apple has merely exhausted and abused the dev team. Some have moved to support Autodesk and The Foundry, but last thing I heard about the matter was, that Phenomenon still exists and may see the light of day yet. Why they killed it so quickly is another matter. At the time they bought it, in fact I was ready to push my boss for a PC license of Shake, which then became an impossibility. Just like me, they may have lost a considerable potential user base then, all platform wars aside. The second stupidity was certainly killing off the Linux version. Studios would have loved that to save cost, at least for render-only operations. It's one of the reasons Nuke is going so strong - you can get it for any platform and it runs on very low-end hardware without acting up...

 

Mylenium

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What have they brought over to Motion? I still haven't really delved into that program. I was part of the early development before it's 1.0 release and was very impressed with the thinking behind the interface and workflow. But it just didn't seem to have the features necessary to do pro work. Since then I've never really gone back to look at it.

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There was a time about three years ago where I was going to take the plunge and dedicate my time to learning shake but that same month they announced they were discontinuing it.

So,I waited for apple to release some other app to take it's place. And I waited... and waited...

and nothing ever appeared.

And regardless I still saw job listings like crazy for shake.

I don't understand why they would just F over the community like that.

 

I guess it is/was a purely a business decision. It was probably expensive to develop for and there are a lot more people buying $500 subsidized iphones then there are buying a niche composting app.

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What have they brought over to Motion? I still haven't really delved into that program. I was part of the early development before it's 1.0 release and was very impressed with the thinking behind the interface and workflow. But it just didn't seem to have the features necessary to do pro work. Since then I've never really gone back to look at it.

What's come over from Shake is some of the "under-the-hood" stuff. Motion is definitely not a node based compositor (unless you buy Conduit http://www.dvgarage.com/prod/prod.php?prod=conduit2).

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Well, apparently Motion was done by the people also creating Shake as were pieces of Aperture.

 

I distinctly remember a slew of former Combustion 2 developers moving over to Apple to create what was to become Motion, after Discreet consolidated their offices. Hence Combustion 3 being such a lackluster update (or any update after that for that matter).

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They HAVE sold the sourcecode to a bunch of studios and i'm sure those will develop shake further for their own in-house usage.

 

For the general public, try Nuke.

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I hate to burst your ignorant bubble, but selling source code doesn't make shake into linux, or open office. The price of 50k (last I checked) for the source code comes with 500 seats, and a confidentiality agreement that NOT share what the code is, and to not repackage and sell the product.

 

Selling the source code allows companies like ILM, WETA, DD etc alow them to continue the software as well as hook into the software in ways that weren't possible before. Like creating custom renderman scripts that auto composite comps, and then render them out with out a person ever setting a hand in the comp. Or creating custom modules for shake it self, things that wouldn't be available to the normal shake user group.

 

It's like buying a historic house, yea you can change where some of the outlets are, move the furniture, but it's never going to be your house.

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I hate to burst your ignorant bubble, but selling source code doesn't make shake into linux, or open office. The price of 50k (last I checked) for the source code comes with 500 seats, and a confidentiality agreement that NOT share what the code is, and to not repackage and sell the product.

 

Selling the source code allows companies like ILM, WETA, DD etc alow them to continue the software as well as hook into the software in ways that weren't possible before. Like creating custom renderman scripts that auto composite comps, and then render them out with out a person ever setting a hand in the comp. Or creating custom modules for shake it self, things that wouldn't be available to the normal shake user group.

 

It's like buying a historic house, yea you can change where some of the outlets are, move the furniture, but it's never going to be your house.

 

 

Well, your not really correct on this. Shake is now in house only. They sold the source code, MEANING THEY OWN IT. They can do things that was never dreamed with shake now. They can write there own GUI, there own Plugins,etc. The Source Code license includes a 5,000 seat volume license of Shake 4.1. The offer is designed to help facilities with significant Shake investments maintain a reliable and controllable visual effects pipeline, according to Apple. Because from a legal stand point. Changing the code is the same as changing the name. Shake will be around for many many years due to the number of studios that paid 50 grand for it. Sure they have nuke seats etc but shake will be a main stay in the studios that bought the source code for many many years. Shake is now an IN HOUSE TOOL ONLY which makes it even more exclusive. You can do more than move the furniture around, you can tear walls and rebuild as you wish just about. Some, i hear, even rewriting shake to be 64bit. . Shake was around before NUKE, or FUsion or any other film based compositor. Fusion is a scam cause they leave out mac users. The code is so bad it cant be ported LIKE 3DS MAX!! They have tried. Originally shake was 10,000 dollars, twice what NUKE or Fusion Costs. If you own the source code, think about it. The source code is THE CODE of the app. THEY OWN IT. Im not sure where you got this 500 seats thing. At minimum its 5000. THATS A HUGE NUMBER MAN! 5,000 SHAKE SEATS? WOW! How many compositors you have working for you? lol. They can change it into anything they like and no Confidentiality agreement was signed that i know of. A confidentiality agreement has nothing to do with selling it. A confidentiality agreement has to do with keeping quit not selling something modified. I think you mean Not show it to others but if they buy the code they can show there code to whoever they like. If you bought the code you own the ap pretty much. You want to take the source code you bought, change it, add in house tools etc They can do that. They own the code. Its like buying a house. Historic or not. You buy it, you own it. You can change it. If I pay 50 grand for a house i can change it, knock down walls, insert more outlets and remove others. Hell I can paint it, remove the roof or tear it down. If they own the SOURCE code they can do more than move furniture. If they bought the source code, its pretty much there house. Im sure there are legalities though. The way its sold from apple in box is not the source code only. Shake had it own GUI etc.

 

The source code can allow you to have a look at the cpp-file which implements the NRxTiffReader and NRxTiffWriter etc etc. Its the bottom level guts. If you buy the source code, you can create your own version of Shake just about. So, you are really buying the rights to own Shake. thats why places keep there source code secret. If anyone sees it they can copy it, call it something else and by changing a few things, be legal.

 

Shake has been used on more films than any other app. All films over the past 9 years that have won oscars used shake. ALL THEM from Spider man, to titanic, to Dark Knight, to All lord of the rings, King Kong, Matrix. War of the Worlds, Star Wars 1 2 and 3. Fantastic 4, Mission Impossible 3, Poseidon, The Incredibles, Hulk, Doctor Who, Tand Pirates of the Caribbean 1,2, 3.I can go on and on. The list of films will stretch for miles. Even if Nuke was used I guarantee shake was used as well.

 

Without shake Motion and FCP wouldnt have tons of stuff. Mostly underlying architecture. Optical Flow in Motion as well as smooth cam in FCP. QMaster which enables shake and FCP to render over multi cores and multi machines. Compressor uses the tech in shake A LOT! Shake has improved FCS in ways not seen and people just dont get it. Shake started an industry, everything else are imitators that came after. Fusion is PC only so they can piss off. Autodesk has no hold on the compositing industry. They just started bundling toxic so that will change. But they killed combustion. So autodesk is selling off or killing all consumer lever applications. They just killed the Maya complete as well. THE CHEAPER VERSION OF MAYA. Now only complete can be bought. They have also killed the PLE to maya. Autodesk has totally crapped on teh little guy.

 

But the info i see here regarding shake, most is just false. I hear teh new shake replacement will plug in to motion like conduit. It will be a node based compositor that attaches to motion. It will not be a totally different app. It will integrate with motion. If you want an idea of how this works go to dv garage.

 

http://www.dvgarage.com/prod/prod.php?prod=conduit2

 

This is where apple is going.

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Guest Sao_Bento

before NUKE, or FUsion or any other film based compositor.

I'll assume that in your emotional state, you meant to say "node based" rather than "film based", as film based compositing has been around for quite awhile.

As to where Apple is going - it's called "iPhone". Pro Apps and users be damned.

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I'll assume that in your emotional state, you meant to say "node based" rather than "film based", as film based compositing has been around for quite awhile.

As to where Apple is going - it's called "iPhone". Pro Apps and users be damned.

 

 

-Fusion has been around since '89. Yes, it's a windows based app. Yes, it does run on Bootcamp. I don't see the scam of which you speak.

 

Shake has been dead for three years. Get over it. Apple let you down... get over that too.

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Shake was around before NUKE, or FUsion or any other film based compositor.

Ever heard of Cineon, Eddie or Chalice? There have been plenty of other nodal comp apps around before Shake became popular.

 

It´s also kinda funny that you call Fusion scam because it´s Win only, while the first thing Apple did after acquiring Shake was to stop the Windows version. So after your very own logic Shake is scam as well?

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