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jayfaker

In other news, Apple bans Adobe's new Flash compiler....

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Just want to add, while I think Apple has a point with their anti-flash stance, this is a very legitimate argument against Apple's practices. (It the browser isn't approved).

 

 

There's no 3rd party perspective on this app yet, but if it's truly a better browser than safari, then I think Apple is going to be in a really tight spot. Turn it down and feel the wrath of the public, or approve it and lose all that search ad revenue.

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 Interesting post I came across, "Sorry, Adobe, you screwed yourself." -- http://innerdaemon.w...rewed-yourself/

 

It's just another of those pointless Mac-biased comments. Really. What's particularly weird is how he accuses Adobe of abandoning Apple, when at the time Apple themselves couldn't get their act together at the time. Anyway, what does it matter? There's a gigazillion Windows PCs out there, equally many Symbian-based mobile devices and god knows what and all of them still use/ need Flash. Yes, Adobe may feel the impact of Apple's policies, but they will come up with something.

 

Mylenium

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At the moment, it seems like they offer a superior solution in a lot of cases, so I don't see why they wouldn't keep taking market share away from flash.

 

That remains to be seen! You know, there is this ongoing debate about licensing fees for MPEG patents. Also, with regards to the <video> tag, HTML5 is quite sketchy and far from providing a standardized solution. What works in one browser must not necessarily work in another. For a while, we still will be stuck with pages that run perfectly in Safari, but will look rubbish in Firefox et al. Likewise, one should not expect the <canvas> tag to be able to provide as rich an experience as Flash. People wrongly expect to get the same feature set, when at the moment it is mostly based on things that Flash could do 4 or 5 versions ago already. Of course this will get better with HTML 5.1 and 5.2, but for the time being I think one should not write off Flash all too quickly, especially now that in CS5 several issues on the Mac side have been resolved...

 

Mylenium

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That remains to be seen! You know, there is this ongoing debate about licensing fees for MPEG patents. Also, with regards to the <video> tag, HTML5 is quite sketchy and far from providing a standardized solution. What works in one browser must not necessarily work in another. For a while, we still will be stuck with pages that run perfectly in Safari, but will look rubbish in Firefox et al. Likewise, one should not expect the <canvas> tag to be able to provide as rich an experience as Flash. People wrongly expect to get the same feature set, when at the moment it is mostly based on things that Flash could do 4 or 5 versions ago already. Of course this will get better with HTML 5.1 and 5.2, but for the time being I think one should not write off Flash all too quickly, especially now that in CS5 several issues on the Mac side have been resolved...

 

Mylenium

 

The fact that the format debate is happening, and so voluminously, is a pretty clear signal to me that flash can only go down. The same with AJAX and all the other things that HTML5 will hopefully bring to fruition.

 

Maybe I'll make a reminder for myself to check this thread in a few years, on my AJAX powered Google calendar, but here's my ultimate prediction in this debate: Flash becomes a web games platform (including banner ads that are mini web games where you shoot flying mortgage rates). It has no other future.

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*fingers crossed* Adobe drops support for osx on all its products and development will be faster, software will be cheaper, and plugin developers won't have to worry about mac support. And maybe cinema4D will also drop it in following suite and implement directx viewport functionality and we can have game quality viewports *prays, even though not religious*

 

 

ah.. dreams...

 

Really?

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The fact that the format debate is happening, and so voluminously, is a pretty clear signal to me that flash can only go down. The same with AJAX and all the other things that HTML5 will hopefully bring to fruition.

 

Maybe I'll make a reminder for myself to check this thread in a few years, on my AJAX powered Google calendar, but here's my ultimate prediction in this debate: Flash becomes a web games platform (including banner ads that are mini web games where you shoot flying mortgage rates). It has no other future.

 

 

I second that - but also think ads will no longer be flash (who wants to pay for advertising that wont reach absolutely everyone?)

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Just catching up on this thread and there are some very interesting points of debate in here. I do a ton of Flash at my day job, and also teach an undergraduate flash design class. this same discussion seems to manifests itself every day in one way or another and i'm always awed by how widely opinions vary. There are people on apple's side, adobe's side, and those who eat shit and pray open source, and those that like to bitch for bitching's sake. Ultimately, this adobe/apple conundrum has nothing to do with technology and everything to do with business.

 

The original reason Apple claimed flash wasn't supported on the iPhone was because they stated flash was a 'resource hog'. But c'mon Stevie, dont bullshit a bullshitter... Jobs simply doesnt want adobe/flash/anything non-apple all up in their iPhone's grill. App compiling and flash support aside, the root of this debacle are Apple's business decisions. This is not a technology issue. Apple wants to lock in developers to the Apple platform. Given their rapidly growing user-base, they can afford to do this. Jobs wants to have full control of how applications get on either device. That is why the SDK for such devices prohibits any interpreted code, like flash or java. And Jobs can do whatever Jobs wants because its Jobs' show.

 

I use Flash for many things and have always maintained a passionate love-hate relationship with it. Flash does alot really well - used correctly it is responsible for some of the greatest and best interactive sites we've ever seen. Flash also has many problems. 1) It is a plug-in and not an absolute requirement to view the web. 2) Flash is owned by a single company and the open source community will continue to build standards-based solutions and obviate the need for flash ( ajax, html5 and keep an eye out for WebGL ). 3) HTML5 is being adopted fairly rapidly in the big picture, negating the need for flash in its most prized niche - presenting video. Regardless, Flash is still very widely adopted and will not go away anytime soon.

 

Insomuch as Jobs is carving the new order of apple law in stone right now, as wise a business move as it may be, he is also blatantly taking a huge dump on millions of people around the world. Hate flash of not, millions of sites are still built in flash. Sure there are billon dollar companies that have flash elements in their sites for navigation or content, but for the most part i like to think they can generally afford to put a plan in place to fix alot of that stuff to work everywhere - and this will be generally good for the web in the long run. What irks me the most are the millions of mom and pop shops around the world that have all their design, information and contact information in flash - all of which becomes innaccesible when viewed on the iPhone or iPad. Apple is alienating good hardworking people who have already invested heavily in their web presence, and are now all but forcing them to eventually spend more to redo their sites/apps. Unfortunately, people arent going to give up on their iPhone because a site doesnt work on it, they are going to give up a site because it doesnt work on their iphone. That is just bad for business.

 

I'm not saying flash is the answer and fully embrace a standards-complaint universal workflow across devices and the interwebs. Flash will undoubtedly continue to wane as more and more people view the web on constrained bandwidth and devices. I can also appreciate why Jobs is doing what he is doing when lookinf at the big picture and the future of apple. But dammit, this whole mess just makes everything a pain in the ass for everyone. Double the work to deploy apps, more work recreating flash in javascript, more people crying about why their site wont work on their new ipad... Technology is supposed to make lives easier - and in the near future apples decisions are counter-productive to this goal. Thank god the dreaded IE6 is nearing extinction ( you would be amazed how many business and clients still use that exclusively ) - but now for web and app developers, we have a new IE6: the iPhone and iPad. Can't we all just get along?

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Just want to add, while I think Apple has a point with their anti-flash stance, this is a very legitimate argument against Apple's practices. (It the browser isn't approved).

 

 

There's no 3rd party perspective on this app yet, but if it's truly a better browser than safari, then I think Apple is going to be in a really tight spot. Turn it down and feel the wrath of the public, or approve it and lose all that search ad revenue.

 

 

APPROVED!!!!

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too much to read, but who ever mentioned that adobe will drop apple support:

 

*fingers crossed* Adobe drops support for osx on all its products and development will be faster, software will be cheaper, and plugin developers won't have to worry about mac support. And maybe cinema4D will also drop it in following suite and implement directx viewport functionality and we can have game quality viewports *prays, even though not religious*

 

 

ah.. dreams...

 

I second that. I didn't want to chime in and start mac/pc debate, but I personally wouldn't mind if this happened. I have worked on mac & pc equally for 10 years now, and especially since OSX came out, I have found that they are EXACTLY the same when it comes to crashes and freezes. And like Mylenium said, why is it automatically flashes fault when user crash reports are flash related? Wait a minute, macs never crash!

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Guest Sao_Bento

I second that. I didn't want to chime in and start mac/pc debate, but I personally wouldn't mind if this happened. I have worked on mac & pc equally for 10 years now, and especially since OSX came out, I have found that they are EXACTLY the same when it comes to crashes and freezes. And like Mylenium said, why is it automatically flashes fault when user crash reports are flash related? Wait a minute, macs never crash!

All those damn computer security experts who say that the #1 vulnerability of any computer is Flash are all nuts - the thing is freaking perfect. How did anyone every get a mortgage before flash??

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http://www.mikechambers.com/blog/2010/04/20/on-adobe-flash-cs5-and-iphone-applications/

 

Adobe has ended development of the Flash compiler. Probably a good thing since it's not a good idea to get into a cat and mouse game with Apple. Apple owns the device, so Apple will always win. Steve Jobs doesn't want Flash on the iPhone, and he'll close all the loopholes anyone tries to use to get it there.

 

Maybe Adobe should work on a Flash to HTML5 converter? That would seem to be the only way for them to get "Flash" onto the iPhone. Anyway, I'm no web programmer, but that seems somewhat possible, doesn't it?

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I don't know if it would be hard to make a Flash to HTML 5 converter but I think it might be conceding defeat. Adobe spent a lot of money buying Macromedia for Flash. The news came out a few years ago during the week of NAB and that's all anyone could talk about. What a splash they made that week. Fast forward to 2010 and it looks a lot different. Jobs has been saying that Adobe is lazy. I wonder what it is that he thinks they should do to improve it? They have to put their trust in Android now.

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Guest Sao_Bento

Adobe claims to make content creation tools for the formats the content authors want to distribute on - guess which one they all want to be on? Stopping the development of Mac OS tools doesn't make the people who make the content not want their content on the iPad or iPhone, so what does Adobe gain from that? The satisfaction of a childish temper tantrum?. Sorry Adobe, but your plans for Flash aren't going to work out. Time to let the pride slide and concentrate on serving your customers - there's still a lot of money to be made for the shareholders if you can leverage your end to end workflow and installed base advantage.

 

 

edit: meanwhile, why not see if you can get the display of my cursor to line up with my actual cursor?

 

 

 

Mark Coleran twittered this link to a broader explanation about how this whole Flash thing isn't really about Apple and the ban hammer.

http://blog.streamingmedia.com/the_business_of_online_vi/2010/04/the-underlying-story-behind-adobes-failed-mobile-strategy.html

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