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g-off

Building the perfect team

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I'm still astonished at the fact that a church requires a mograph department.

 

Sorry, just can't deal with that one. :unsure:

 

By the way, if I were you, I wouldn't stick to that job forever. You'll never grow. Isn't that what we're all here for?

Edited by hyp3

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By the way, if I were you, I wouldn't stick to that job forever. You'll never grow. Isn't that what we're all here for?

 

I was going to say something along these lines earlier. You have skills and could do well. I know you have your faith and all, but don't let it hold you back. It would be a shame.

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I kinda feel bad when someone attempts to be straight forward and ask for help and all they get are antagonistic or smart-ass responses.

 

no fun~ i thought we would debate the orwellian or maybe huxleyan nature of big screens in churches and go on to have a discussion of niel postman's 'amusing ourselves to death' before wrapping up with a rousing twist on how similar TV and church epistemologies are, with loads of verbose doubt of religious orthodoxies and jaded button pusher humor mixed in

 

such as: do you not find it twisted that all the christian miracles happened before video technology, and now we have mega churches with big screens just showing buzzwords and tiny excerpts treated with the latest styles from the commercial sector?

 

just kidding. you can either build your dream team with cheap students who are into it but you will have to school up, or dip into the pool of online reels, make a deal and hire somebody with all that offering money. do it incrementally like was mentioned. or were you expecting some deeper Phil Jackson level insight into building and managing The Most Ridiculously Awesome Christian Skater Mograph Collective Ever Assembled? just take your time and concentrate on finding people who are the right fit

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How could you possibly need more people than what you have already? Maybe one more guy to do some 3D stuff? Your audience is 6000 people...and im sure only a handful would be remotely impressed with a skilled rockstar mograph artist.

 

I really dont think your audience will notice if its video-copilot-"EasyReflect"-Bible or some psyop stuff.

 

Just hire some local tv news editor for $19 an hour and pocket the rest.

 

Unless you have enough people just throwing their hard earned money into a pit of no return...go BIG!

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How could you possibly need more people than what you have already? Maybe one more guy to do some 3D stuff? Your audience is 6000 people...and im sure only a handful would be remotely impressed with a skilled rockstar mograph artist.

 

I really dont think your audience will notice if its video-copilot-"EasyReflect"-Bible or some psyop stuff.

 

Just hire some local tv news editor for $19 an hour and pocket the rest.

 

Unless you have enough people just throwing their hard earned money into a pit of no return...go BIG!

 

 

Well that hope is that as the church continues to grow, the creative department would grow with it.... 6,000 is only a glimpse of where we are hoping to grow too. We hosted our Easter Experience at the Bobcats arena and had over 11,000.

Either way, I'm thinking about trying to find some 3D talent or generalist for my #2 man.

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I am surprised that people don't get why a church might want a mograph department. If the business we are in is not about using the moving image to influence inform and persuade, then we are all wasting our time and our clients money. A church is like any other commercial organisation, the more people it signs up, the more money, power and influence it gains. What is amazing is how many churches have missed the tricks of modern marketing and customer relationship management; it is scary for us non-believers when church organisations move out of the area of crass, simplistic salesmanship to become sophisticated image promoters. In times gone by, TV evangelists were more like second hand car salesmen or Ron Popeil pushing his latest gizmo.

 

This is nothing new; it could be argued the early church invented modern marketing. All the techniques were there over a thousand years ago. The tools you use to promote a brand were in place. Logos and associated imagery - the simplest, and most successful logo ever, the cross, (plus the chi-rho, and the Ichthys, and a range of iconography that would have been instantly recognisable to believers); celebrity endorsements (the early saints were the celebs of the day); negative marketing about your competitors (anti-jewish and anti-moslem propaganda). Oh, and inflated claims about the properties of your product (eternal life, salvation etc)

 

P.S. Geoff - good work on your site, sorry to take your thread off topic, but we have had some killer discussions on this board when threads head off into philosophical areas.

Edited by basilisk

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Basilisk, no problem swaying from the original thread.... I appreciate you're recognition of why the Church would want to use marketing, just like any other organization would.

 

And answering a few posts back... The plan is to grow professionally while supporting a vision I believe in here at the church I work at/attend. To me, that would be ideal. I too believe that we are to keep progressing and I believe that there is potential for me to do that here (otherwise i wouldn't have taken the job in the first place).

Thank you for seeing potential in my work and encouraging me to keep growing. That honestly does mean a lot to me.

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I am surprised that people don't get why a church might want a mograph department. If the business we are in is not about using the moving image to influence inform and persuade, then we are all wasting our time and our clients money. A church is like any other commercial organisation, the more people it signs up, the more money, power and influence it gains. What is amazing is how many churches have missed the tricks of modern marketing and customer relationship management; it is scary for us non-believers when church organisations move out of the area of crass, simplistic salesmanship to become sophisticated image promoters. In times gone by, TV evangelists were more like second hand car salesmen or Ron Popeil pushing his latest gizmo.

 

This is nothing new; it could be argued the early church invented modern marketing. All the techniques were there over a thousand years ago. The tools you use to promote a brand were in place. Logos and associated imagery - the simplest, and most successful logo ever, the cross, (plus the chi-rho, and the Ichthys, and a range of iconography that would have been instantly recognisable to believers); celebrity endorsements (the early saints were the celebs of the day); negative marketing about your competitors (anti-jewish and anti-moslem propaganda). Oh, and inflated claims about the properties of your product (eternal life, salvation etc)

 

P.S. Geoff - good work on your site, sorry to take your thread off topic, but we have had some killer discussions on this board when threads head off into philosophical areas.

 

 

Thanks for pointing out everything that is wrong with most organized religions today. If people would actually read their Bible, they would actually see what's wrong with all that stuff you listed, and they would also see that the 1st century Christians actually did not practice such things. It was only when the apostates came on the scene and the Roman Catholic church started adopting all these human doctrines/pagan rituals that you had all these practices become so prevalent, misleading many people.

 

Just saying, it might be more beneficial to get your spiritual information from the Bible, instead of watching motion graphics in church.

Edited by theta

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Just saying, it might be more beneficial to get your spiritual information from the Bible, instead of watching motion graphics in church.

 

hmm. what's wrong with using this tool to visualize what the Bible says though? i mean look, i have 2 young kids.....one whom is making their confirmation soon. What do you think would help them gain more knowledge: Hearing a 50-60 year old Priests lecture or watching a visually cool motion graphic piece that tells the story?

 

I think it's a wonderful thing.

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hmm. what's wrong with using this tool to visualize what the Bible says though? i mean look, i have 2 young kids.....one whom is making their confirmation soon. What do you think would help them gain more knowledge: Hearing a 50-60 year old Priests lecture or watching a visually cool motion graphic piece that tells the story?

 

I think it's a wonderful thing.

 

I do have to agree wit that point.

 

@theta: I can totally agree with you, but I seriously would rather look at motion graphics any day... :D

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Well there's a time and place for everything. My son would much rather look at pop-up books then sit through a 2 hour service, but he can do that when we go home. If you have a congregation of 6,000 why drop the quality down to the lowest common denominator - aka the children? I think it kind of belittles the message and cheapens it in a way. I'm bombarded with animated commercials and motion graphics everywhere I go, the last place I want to see that is church. Then again, this kind of pales in comparison to all the other things wrong with most of them.

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We actually have worship experiences be about 75 minutes long, and we have separate experiences for broken down age ranges for kids so that the message in each experience is toned appropriately.

The point of any motion graphic work used isn't to "preach" the message, but to either communicate a specific point that will help lead into what our Pastor is going to preach about or to help set the tone of what the message will carry.

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first off, g-off's reel quality is what i would call "extremely rock solid", which puts him ahead of about 80% of people getting paid to do this stuff. so the attacks on his work are kinda absurd. i would assume the venom being spit around on here is somewhat related to the shitty economy and the fact that most people in our industry are hurting at least a little, so the concept of a cushy job with creative latitude funded by donations may just conjure up some resentment, which is understandable.

 

how is doing motion graphics for a non-jerryfalwellesque church (i'm assuming his qualifies as such) any worse than doing it for multinational agricultural corps who pillage third world countries of their only resources in order to make wholly unhealthy and ecologically destructive snack food products targeted at first-world preteens? note my clever use of the word "wholly". anyways, i'm not particularly a fan of either of those, but attacking the dude for asking a legitimate & smart question is just retardo.

 

some thingees i'd suggest...

1. people who can finish a project from square one to delivery if needed...

a. ... that also have design sensibilities that are completely different than yours...

b. ... and/or have animation sensibilities that are completely different than yours...

c. ... and/or have good drawing/illustration abilities...

d. ... and/or have thorough 3d skills...

e. ... and/or have super exceptional color palettes in their work...

f. ... and/or have exceptional expressions skills.

2. a friendly but ruthless project manager

 

hope this helps and best of luck. and thank you for decreasing the unemployment rate.

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The religion hate flying around is pretty absurd. I'll admit to being an atheist through and through, but I also admit that I'm more than a bit envious of the situation you're in.

A solid career, working for an organisation you believe in. More than most of us have that's for sure.

Sure, you might never make it to the top of the industry working for a church, but how many of us will any way working for corporations that we don't give a damn about.

 

 

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I imagine your church might have events similar to this?

 

Sorry, I had to post this :)

 

 

sweet.

 

yea and g-off's work is obviously solid regardless of what anyone has to say. but i think our industry would be a lot more efficient if there was less stroking of egos and more ultra-perfectionist-type gatekeepers.

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Thanks guys for the kind words regarding my work... certainly wasn't looking for that with this post, but it is appreciated.

And thanks jaan for some feedback regarding the original thread... that feedback helps break down what I'll be looking for.

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I am surprised that people don't get why a church might want a mograph department. If the business we are in is not about using the moving image to influence inform and persuade, then we are all wasting our time and our clients money.

 

 

I agree 100%. Looking at the modernization of communication in the last 5 years, I think it would be incredibly short-sighted to think this is off.

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