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Srek

CINEMA 4D R12 released

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over at cgsociety, there's a lot of complaints about the new upgrade prices, what do you guys think?

 

At my company we ended up not taking the MSA deal because we have the core C4D with a bunch of seperate modules, the local reseller couldn't quote us a price that was lower than just buying the whole suite over again. So we waited for the R12 release and again it looks like we're cheaper off buying the Studio edition from scratch, which is crazy.

 

I bit the bullet and upgraded from XL with 3 modules to Studio. Got an upgrade offer because I took the MSA wich in the end will prevent me having shocks like these.

The modules I had fitted my needs perfectly. But to retain these I had to do this substantial upgrade, which truly sucks from a customers point of view.

 

After a night sleep I'm looking forward to the goodies. Cinema has always paid for itself in a way.

And it look like a very nice upgrade imho. I can't get how people on cgtalk say they will switch, now that the upgrade policy is known.

Paying for a new app seems rather expensive, if only time wise by having a to learn a new app and interface.

 

my last 2 cents ;)

 

-C

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over at cgsociety, there's a lot of complaints about the new upgrade prices, what do you guys think?

 

At my company we ended up not taking the MSA deal because we have the core C4D with a bunch of seperate modules, the local reseller couldn't quote us a price that was lower than just buying the whole suite over again. So we waited for the R12 release and again it looks like we're cheaper off buying the Studio edition from scratch, which is crazy.

 

Yes, the way Maxon has handled the upgrade policy isn't great, for a company known for its excellent customer service and support this is baffling.

 

However - having seen their reaction to the CGtalk/C4DCafe outrage I'm reasonably pleased that what appeared to be a ridiculously aggressive and inflexible upgrade path has now turned out to be a little more lenient. Looks like we'll have no choice but to upgrade to the MSA + 50% off deal + module discounts, this will definitely benefit artists at our company (i.e. me!!) in the long run.

 

Now I'll need to find some projects to use dynamics, mocca and netrender on, should be fun!

 

Dan

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over at cgsociety, there's a lot of complaints about the new upgrade prices, what do you guys think?

*Begin Rant*

 

You only need two things that cost money to compete in this industry. Hardware and Software.

 

You know how much shit you have to buy to be a farmer? How many recourses and services you have to buy? Or how many tools you have to *rent* every year, because you can't afford a 100,000k tractor? All that work to make less in a year than some 20 something mograph jockey who got his computer for christmas and his software from the pirate bay. Listening to people in our Industry complain about upgrade prices makes me want to kick a baby in the face.

 

I'm willing to throw a lot of money at upgrades because I see the return 10 fold.

CGtalk gets a little sidetracked with parallel bickering.

 

People decide how much they should pay based on:

 

1) How much money they have.

2) How much money they paid last time.

3) How much other 3D packages cost.

 

I guess I always ask myself...

 

1) How much time/money will the upgrade save me

 

*End Rant*

 

-m

Edited by the_Monkey

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Listening to people in our Industry complain about upgrade prices makes me want to kick a baby in the face.

 

I'm willing to throw a lot of money at upgrades because I see the return 10 fold.

 

Resist the temptation to boot another innocent kid in the kisser my simian friend ;-)

 

Not worrying about money is great when you've got it, but not all businesses are so fluid in this day and age. There are some harsh realities to face here for some people when faced with a sudden hike in upgrade prices. Not all designers (myself included) work at the same high, rarified levels in terms of ability, or have clients with deep pockets and many are pitching for a limited amount of work against 20 something hacks who pirate all their software. Many are provincial one-man bands who tread a fine line between providing their clients a quality service with integrity and creativity, providing for their families and keeping up with software etc. I have a yearly budget for software which, as an XL Bundle user I will have blow in one go in order to keep the modules I need to do the type of work I do, even with Maxon's help with the pricing (and they have been a great help and are genuinely pleasant people - an increasing rarity in this industry). For me, that means no Trapcode and Image Lounge upgrades for the CS5 upgrade, that's not a whinge, it's a harsh economic reality and it's not a nice feeling to suddenly loose that cash.

 

All businesses are driven by the bottom line, and when yours gets eaten into by a sudden and unexpected up in prices like this upgrade, then people have a right to voice their grievances on these boards; they are worrying for their future.

 

Have some sympathy and tolerance for the lesser of the species Monkey - lots of them look up to you!

Edited by zook

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You know how much shit you have to buy to be a farmer?

 

Just to save that baby from beeing kicked:

 

Imagine a farmer needs a plow, for use with his existing tractor.

But the only way to buy the plow is in a bundle with another tractor, a trailer and a harrow.

Sounds stupid doesn't it?

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Not arguing about value for money. The dynamics look great, and when I can justify getting the upgrade for a large paying project I will get it.

 

Have to ask though if it is good for the C4D user base to give the impression that the software has moved out of the mid market to the expensive end. To me, C4D is better value than Maya, because it allows me to be more productive. But purchasing departments might decide otherwise.

Another problem; there are many C4D freelancers in the motion graphics industry who end up working on client machines, and it is already a problem that you think you will be working with the full bundle and find the client doesn't have mograph, AR or whatever. Pushing up prices for the full bundle will probably make this worse.

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Guest Sao_Bento

it's a no-brainer when C4D is 90+% of what you do all day every day, but there are also people for whom C4D represents a much smaller slice. I hate being forced to ride the upgrade train, or risk be charged full price if you miss a version or two. Unfortunately that's the position all software publishers want to put their customers in these days. Personally, I'd be up for a downgrade (was that a Pfunk song title?) if it was an option.

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Anyone have any idea why the "alt/option" key is disabled for C4D 12? Is there a way to enable it (for viewport zooming, right clicking, etc)?

No way to enable it.

 

The only solution I've found has been to enable the buttons on my pen and form my hand into a claw-shape every time I want to access a contextual menu.

I believe it was done to simplify compatibility with OSX and Win. Unfortunately it means a step backwards for OSX users.

Easily my least favorite change in R12.

 

You may also notice that your privilege to Right Align icons in your Object Manager has also been revoked.

My second least favorite change in R12.

 

-m

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Anyone have any idea why the "alt/option" key is disabled for C4D 12? Is there a way to enable it (for viewport zooming, right clicking, etc)?

 

-I haven't upgraded yet, but that's kind of a bummer to hear. I've been using a 3D mouse lately, so it shouldn't make too much difference in my workflow, but sans-3D mouse, I'm on that alt/option key ALL the time.

 

on the price thing:

C4D is dirt cheap for what it does. Personally I run a lot of software, and yes, deciding which ones and when to upgrade can be tough. It has definitely forced me to look at the big picture and audit which software package is bringing in what dollar amt. over the course of the year. Honestly, C4D & CS5 production premium are a fierce combination. Amortizing the upgrade costs of those two packages over 12 months is not bad at all (thus, they get priority in my pipeline). While R12 doesn't boast any rendering speed improvements (always a nice feature to hang your hat on), it still makes sense to upgrade for the sake of keeping the software current. (so that you're not getting double-whacked when it's time to upgrade to 12.5). that being said, I usually wait about six months to upgrade. Unless of course there is a must-have feature that I need for a current or upcoming job. (and don't we always talk ourselves into NEEDING feature x on our next job?)

 

and yes, the other thing is that compared to what it used to be, AND compared to other occupations, it is relatively inexpensive to legally purchase the necessary software for what we do. (although this certainly has been balanced by stagnant, if not dropping rates).

 

-mike

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the "no ctrl key context menu" on OSX is possibly one of the worst things about R12

 

I didn't even know an app had the power to override the OS like that

 

I'd pay another $1000 just to get that back - it will slow me down immensely

Edited by mikeh64

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Well, that stinks. It was nice being able to use a laptop to sort through a C4D file - it's kinda harder now.

 

I turned on my '2 finger tap' option on my laptop so I could get a right-click. On a tower I use a 3 button mouse anyways with right click so it hasn't bugged me too bad. If I was a tablet user it would annoy the shite out of me.

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I turned on my '2 finger tap' option on my laptop so I could get a right-click. On a tower I use a 3 button mouse anyways with right click so it hasn't bugged me too bad. If I was a tablet user it would annoy the shite out of me.

 

Awesome tip on the 2-finger tap option. Thanks Chris!

 

I'm a tablet user at work, though - so the change still hurts.

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I'm a tablet user but I use my rocker switch buttons as right and mid coupled with alt to navigate constantly anyway, if people were using alt+ctrl and lmb to zoom what were you replacing middle click with to pan?

 

Weird that they just disabled an entire button though, habits are hard to change if people can't continue working as they are used to!

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I'm a tablet user but I use my rocker switch buttons as right and mid coupled with alt to navigate constantly anyway, if people were using alt+ctrl and lmb to zoom what were you replacing middle click with to pan?

 

Weird that they just disabled an entire button though, habits are hard to change if people can't continue working as they are used to!

Lemme guess your a "front and center" tablet user.

I'm an "off to the right side" tablet guy.

 

One of the worst things about being a legacy C4D user is adopting 1,2,3 habits... it feels completely natural now and every other piece of software is convincing me to change. I hope I can outgrow my habits.

 

-m

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Lemme guess your a "front and center" tablet user.

I'm an "off to the right side" tablet guy.

 

One of the worst things about being a legacy C4D user is adopting 1,2,3 habits... it feels completely natural now and every other piece of software is convincing me to change. I hope I can outgrow my habits.

 

-m

 

I'm a front and center guy-I'd like to not have to develop new habits when it's not necessary :)

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Lemme guess your a "front and center" tablet user.

I'm an "off to the right side" tablet guy.

 

One of the worst things about being a legacy C4D user is adopting 1,2,3 habits... it feels completely natural now and every other piece of software is convincing me to change. I hope I can outgrow my habits.

 

-m

 

No I'm off to the right too, I mean the rocker buttons on my pen not the tablet, I never use those. I find it pretty natural to press right or middle click with the button right under my thumb

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<s>just hijacking this this thread with a c4d n00b question<br><br>so I'm testing out the C4D broadcast version (r12), I was using 11.5 before, and setting up the depth of field was super easy. Just adding it to the camera then adding DOF in the render window. On 12 in the render window that option isn't there when I right click (??), just "Depth" under multipass, but I don't think that's doing anything. I was looking for some documentation but I sorta hit a wall. Sorry if this is an obvious question, any help would be really appreciated.</s><br><br>sorry I think this was addressed this earlier in the thread I guess it's just the broadcast version i'm using :/

Edited by scd

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I'm not familiar with the new packages since they got rid of modules, but I've a feeling that broadcast may not include Advanced Render? Could be wrong as Ive not spent more than 10 mins with the R12 demos, but I recall a lot of people unhappy with the fact they had to basically buy the full studio bundle to get features they'd had for years through cheaper combinations...

 

Edit: yeah looks like DOF is not included in the broadcast: http://www.maxon.net/products/general-information/general-information/product-comparison.html

 

Should do DOF in post anyway..

Edited by froj

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I'm not familiar with the new packages since they got rid of modules, but I've a feeling that broadcast may not include Advanced Render? Could be wrong as Ive not spent more than 10 mins with the R12 demos, but I recall a lot of people unhappy with the fact they had to basically buy the full studio bundle to get features they'd had for years through cheaper combinations...

 

Edit: yeah looks like DOF is not included in the broadcast: http://www.maxon.net/products/general-information/general-information/product-comparison.html

 

Should do DOF in post anyway..

 

haha I was one of those people :rolleyes: you can still do DOF in post, the multipass option outputs a useable depth pass, even better in 32bit.

 

Dan

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