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Final Cut Pro X

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Is Grand Central Station a FCP-specific thing, or an OS feature?

 

Grand Central Dispatch is a system-wide implementation available since Mac OS X 10.6 and iOS4.

It should also use any free GPU power.

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I'll admit, I was really hoping for a finishing blow to Avid,

 

 

I've said this years ago like a religious zealot on this board. Avid has a product better than all of what we're talking about which is the Avid DS. The DS was made by Softimage and bought by Avid where they let it sit. The DS is better, smarter and faster than almost all NLE's mentioned on this thread but almost no one uses it. It does almost everything people have been begging the others to do for years. Better editing experience than Media Composer or FCP, full node based compositing, hardware acceleration, almost bullet proof, etc, etc. As long as Avid owns the DS, I would never want to die or I'd be forced to use all the other sub-par crap.

 

Personally I always thought FCP was basically iMovie anyways so I see X as a big step up. It's never been good for anything but basic offline editing to get an EDL into a proper system like a flame or DS to finish out. So at least they are making that experience faster and including Color. Seems like it's good step all around. I will enjoy editing home movies on it even more I predict ;)

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I've said this years ago like a religious zealot on this board. Avid has a product better than all of what we're talking about which is the Avid DS. The DS was made by Softimage and bought by Avid where they let it sit. The DS is better, smarter and faster than almost all NLE's mentioned on this thread but almost no one uses it. It does almost everything people have been begging the others to do for years. Better editing experience than Media Composer or FCP, full node based compositing, hardware acceleration, almost bullet proof, etc, etc. As long as Avid owns the DS, I would never want to die or I'd be forced to use all the other sub-par crap.

 

Personally I always thought FCP was basically iMovie anyways so I see X as a big step up. It's never been good for anything but basic offline editing to get an EDL into a proper system like a flame or DS to finish out. So at least they are making that experience faster and including Color. Seems like it's good step all around. I will enjoy editing home movies on it even more I predict ;)

 

It's great if you've got 150K laying around, or you want the bank to own your studio. No to mention the yearly nut to cover tech support. But you're right it is the complete package. Can't argue that-

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It's great if you've got 150K laying around, or you want the bank to own your studio. No to mention the yearly nut to cover tech support. But you're right it is the complete package. Can't argue that-

 

Well kind of. In 2005 I paid 120k for a used DS. But it paid itself off in 4 months. But since then they've dropped a complete system to 60k and just software only for 10k. So it's in the ballpark now for anyone to get real work done.

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Well kind of. In 2005 I paid 120k for a used DS. But it paid itself off in 4 months. But since then they've dropped a complete system to 60k and just software only for 10k. So it's in the ballpark now for anyone to get real work done.

 

Wow, you need to come talk to the company I work at. "Real work" on a 70k system? I can't even get an upgrade from CS3 cause it's too expensive :blink:

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Lots of cool stuff in here, but am I the only one who looks at the interface and says, "wait, you mean, no 3-point editing." There's no viewer window that I see.

 

I understand reinventing an editing program, but I can't image that they ignored the most basic convention of professional editing. Maybe I missed it. Or maybe it's still coming. But if it's true, I will no doubt convert to a new editing program.

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Lots of cool stuff in here, but am I the only one who looks at the interface and says, "wait, you mean, no 3-point editing." There's no viewer window that I see.

 

I understand reinventing an editing program, but I can't image that they ignored the most basic convention of professional editing. Maybe I missed it. Or maybe it's still coming. But if it's true, I will no doubt convert to a new editing program.

 

No need to worry. 3-point editing is still there.

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I think one thing that people should keep in mind is that what they showed wasn't even a current beta. And it wasn't really an official reveal. I think the Almighty Fruit will have a proper reveal that will at least put to rest some concerns. I hope anyway.

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Well kind of. In 2005 I paid 120k for a used DS. But it paid itself off in 4 months. But since then they've dropped a complete system to 60k and just software only for 10k. So it's in the ballpark now for anyone to get real work done.

 

I remember demoing the DS back in the Softimage days, the only thing that system suffered from was a lack of proper marketing. Really an excellent rig to let one guy get the whole thing done.

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OK. I'm sold. Busy week and I only now actually watched the videos. I'm surprised people are saying iMovie. This looks like a very useable program. I can see a number of ways it will immediately make my life easier.

 

I love:

 

The dynamic scrubbing

The precision in-line editor (like the trim window on steroids).

The magnetic timeline

And most of all, the audition room. The ability to quickly swap out alternate takes/shots is a huge timesaver.

Plus, the other things that have been mentioned about background ingest and rendering.

 

I was worried that they added lots of bells and whistles, but didn't make the actual editing in the timeline easier. But I actually saw a lot of thought put into the day-to-day tasks editors face. Plus, although I didn't see it, they did say in the demo that all the usual tools, slip, slide, roll, 3-point are all still there. And that everything they showed is accessible through the keyboard. We will see about implementation but the initial demo definitely looked like this was a pro app.

 

Things I still have questions about:

 

I like the new key word searching, but how does that work in a shared media environment. FCP has always had problems in larger pipelines and I didn't see anything that makes me think this was addressed. Can keywords be added both globally and per editor?

 

How does this play with the rest of the FCP suite? Apple has already said that they are update other apps as well. This demo was just FCP. Looking forward to it.

 

Anyway, I'm much more excited now.

Edited by finegrit

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OK. I'm sold. Busy week and I only now actually watched the videos.

 

Me, too, just watched the vids. I agree. They are doing something great here. It's just a foundation as far as I can tell. However they finally have a way to container clips together (something DS has done for over a decade). However where there is containers there are embedded node trees and compositing to be had. This is what DS does. It's like having Shake inside every single clip or container. So if they can stick the motion graphics of Motion and the node trees of shake inside every container of clips then we are talking real power here. Then they need to add clip based, track based, and timeline based effects like DS has and not just clip based like it is now.

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Do you really want Motion in there Chris or do you just want the idea of Motion in it?

 

I haven't used Motion since I played with it for 5 minutes the year it came out. BUT I'm sure the graphics abilities in it are better than what is in FCP now. If you're axing me which Apple owned technology I want inside every edit container it would be a Shake node tree. But if they can add whatever crap Motion has as graphics, particles, titling, animation tools inside every container (similar to a DS) then it would make it substantially more powerful. Like in DS inside every container you can composite in layer mode (like AE) or with Node trees (like Shake) and any combination you want of the two methods. If they can make it in like-fashion with Shake and Motion capabilities inside every clip container then I would not be complaining and MAY consider using FCP again after 6 years of not using it except for small odds and ends like home movies of my kid. In our arguments past people argued that would make it too bloated. I disagree, the DS is far from bloated but insanely flexible and powerful. IF FCP can do this with all the tech Apple has there is some insane firepower ready to be unleashed that has never been remotely tapped before in a usable way IMO. What I've seen from this new FCP, they've laid the groundwork to become the super app like that. We'll see if they go that path or let it sit the way it is. But I do give them props for not only catching up to some of their competition but changing some editing paradigms that haven't yet been touched by Avid or Autodesk.

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What would be amazing is a more advanced version of Adobe's dynamic linking. If you can collapse all these attributes into a single clip, why can't you access project data as well without completely switching projects. What if I could comp something in motion/shake then bring it into the FCP timeline as a collapsed clip. Then if I need to make basic adjustments, say move keyframes around, adjust timings, adjust the level settings I added, I could do that in the timeline. If I wanted to make more complex edits, I could just back to motion/shake and it would update.

 

As for motion, I did some original alpha testing of the first version of Motion back in the day and thought in many ways it revolutionized the workflow of doing motion graphics. It was so much more modern than After Effects. You could bounce back and forth between node and timeline-based editing. The right info seemed to be there when you wanted it. And it had a very advanced caching system that created a workflow that was really based around working on animations in realtime.

 

Unfortunately, the hardware wasn't really up to the task and Apple really sat on Motion. It never really developed the feature set necessary to compete realistically with After Effects. This update of FCP makes me hope that we finally see the integration of motion and shake.

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The hardware limitation is weird. The new Mercury playback engine is fantastic, and it works on all CUDA cards... then they go and artificially disable support on almost all of them. The fact that you have to sneak into the Premiere directory and change a text file just to get the better playback engine is... weird.

 

Any of you who've had a graphics card or driver turn out to be incompatible with OpenGL in After Effects should know the danger of an application trying/claiming to support all hardware in a broad category.

 

The Premiere Pro team made what I think was a good choice: Test cards thoroughly before adding them to the list of hardware that enables the CUDA processing features. This testing bottleneck leaves some people frustrated because their cards aren't on the list, but the alternative is to leave an even larger (and less deterministic) set of people frustrated (or worse) when we claim "support" for untested hardware that turns out to cause serious problems.

 

BTW, we nearly doubled the list of cards that provide the CUDA processing features in Premiere Pro CS5.5. See this page.

Edited by Todd Kopriva

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I don't think most people here realize Avid's true strengths. I think I've posted this here before. In a medium/large sized post house, with many Editors and Assistants working on the same project, an Avid operation is truly unbelievable. Where I work, we have an ISIS storage system with Interplay. The Avid propreitary codecs are rock solid for an offline/online workflow. An assistant can be prepping footage for an editor in an offline project, save the bin, and voila, the editor has what they need. In environments like reality programming with up to 100 hours of footage for every hour of tv, and the growing use of tapeless media and various random formats (helmetcams and such), Avid is next to irreplacable.

 

I understand that if your only use for it was once trying to cut together a mograph reel, you might be underwhelmed. But don't write it off until any other software can cater to the big post houses.

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In a medium/large sized post house, with many Editors and Assistants working on the same project, an Avid operation is truly unbelievable. Where I work, we have an ISIS storage system with Interplay. The Avid propreitary codecs are rock solid for an offline/online workflow. An assistant can be prepping footage for an editor in an offline project, save the bin, and voila, the editor has what they need.

Has anyone used Final Cut Server before? I hadn't even heard of it till now.

http://www.apple.com/finalcutserver/features/

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I don't think most people here realize Avid's true strengths.

 

Many people don't. We've heard that saying about Macintosh, "It just works". That's how I feel about Avid vs FCP. FCP was always a nightmare, slow, problems with reconforms, codecs, etc, etc. The Avid just always works.

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Guest Sao_Bento

You guys should do tech support or something. I recall much recouped free time due to "the Unity is down again!".

 

Many people don't. We've heard that saying about Macintosh, "It just works". That's how I feel about Avid vs FCP. FCP was always a nightmare, slow, problems with reconforms, codecs, etc, etc. The Avid just always works.

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The hardware limitation is weird. The new Mercury playback engine is fantastic, and it works on all CUDA cards... then they go and artificially disable support on almost all of them. The fact that you have to sneak into the Premiere directory and change a text file just to get the better playback engine is... weird.

 

Wait, what? how do I find out if my CUDA is being used? I don't have a Quadro so it probably isn't. What do I need to change?

 

Here I was all ignorant and happy...

Edited by monovich

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Wait, what? how do I find out if my CUDA is being used?

 

Just check to see that Mercury Playback Engine GPU Acceleration is set for Renderer in the Project Settings dialog box.

 

See this page for details about CUDA in Premiere Pro, including answers to frequently asked questions---such as why we don't officially support the use of CUDA processing on all Nvidia cards.

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As a pro-editor, I on't like that no 3rd party hardware is suported yet.. but as a pro-editor I don't expect to work on final cut pro X before next version at least.. so it's not a big deal.

I'm more concern about no mention of RED file support; wich has been introduce during the preview.. I'm sure a few stuff were left but will come very very soon in next update.

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I've only been working with FCPX for a couple of hours now, but so far I am not much of a fan. It feels anything but pro.

I was going to give it a shot on an upcoming project. nuts to that, no XML in or out, so I couldn't move my project over to another platform even if I wanted to (God forbid if I HAD to). Oh wait, at least you can import iMovie sequences. Phew.

-Looks like my Premiere/AE workflow is safe for now. Adobe might want to jump on this chance to point out their differences.

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