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Osama

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Isn't anyone gonna comment that the USA just invaded another country, entered a man's house and started shooting until everything that moved had stopped? And that they just decided to execute the man without even faking a trial, which they bothered doing with Saddam? I'm not saying i like the guy, or i think that if he had a "fair" trial the result would be different, i'm just saying that as soon as you jump one stage that was built to ensure democracy, the others will be just a consequence, THAT's how totalitarian regimes start, you know?

 

Jesus, i must be from another planet... at least i heard in Europe there was some talk about it. If it's true, i better move there quickly, if not, then i must hope the mothership comes to the rescue, because i'm pretty sure south america will be next after you end this so called "war" on the middle east. The media is already taking care of making most presidents here look like tyrants, dictators, terrorist and "threats to democracy", so ass soon as the middle east is done, you are going to look for oil AND water here. Or all of you think that you are REALLY the good guys, that just want to help the world and make good clean business, like when Brazil discovered probably the biggest oil reserve in the world on it's shore, and you sent a fucking ship armed to the teeth here, just to ask for some information about who are we going to sell this to?

 

I hope i'm not sounding like a crazy-anti-american guy, i think every place and group of people in the world has it's characteristics, good and bad, but seriously, it's not because you are inside of one you can't have some critical thought about it.

 

I can't believe we're even talking about whether or not it was right for the US to drop in on Osama's house. And believe me, pretty much everyone on this board who lives in the US has some pretty fucking serious reservations about our foreign policy and our handling of and involvement in the so-called "war on terror." The mistake you're making is looking at this as though it's some sort of extension of the US's interventionist policies; it's not. Pakistan probably knowingly harbored someone who essentially dropped a bomb in lower Manhattan. We all know that the US is guilty of some horrible shit, but how exactly does that mean we have to forego bringing a mass murderer like Osama to justice? Ours is certainly a deeply flawed nation, but as someone who stood on the street and watched the WTC collapse, I don't feel that killing Osama was somehow an abuse of power.

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I'm 100% ok with the way this was handled. This was always a manhunt and no country said "we have him, but you can't get to him".. Many were supposedly searching for him as well. The job is done now. One less asshole to worry about.

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First reports from the USA:

40 minute fire fight, Osama was armed, he used a woman as a human shield.

 

Latest report:

Only 1 person was armed. Osama was unarmed. He didn't use a woman as a human shield. He was executed in front of his 12 year old daughter.

 

I understand he had to go, but this is bullshit.

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First reports from the USA:

40 minute fire fight, Osama was armed, he used a woman as a human shield.

 

Latest report:

Only 1 person was armed. Osama was unarmed. He didn't use a woman as a human shield. He was executed in front of his 12 year old daughter.

 

I understand he had to go, but this is bullshit.

 

What are the sources? It may change again. Neither has any more credibility than the other until there is video.

 

IF the second is true, considering how many times Al Queda has video'd beheadings, or the fact that pregnant women jumped to their death from a burning trade center tower, I'm not feeling a ton of shame over this one. But again....IF it's true.

 

But it's the parenting really isn't it? If you don't want your daughter to witnes your cranium shattering, then try not and engage in activities like mass murder :P

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What are the sources? It may change again. Neither has any more credibility than the other until there is video.

 

Assuming he's dead of course ;-) "Osama bin Laden will not be seen walking the earth again" said Obama, when asked if it was true. Could be that they've got him locked away in a rather deep bunker somewhere, being repeatedly 'pumped' for information...

 

Or not ;)

 

Mind you, with the radioactive sea leak in Japan and the burial at sea of a master criminal, we have the makings of a stupendous monster movie!

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Only 1 person was armed. Osama was unarmed. He didn't use a woman as a human shield. He was executed in front of his 12 year old daughter.

 

I understand he had to go, but this is bullshit.

Who are you to judge the situation? You're some dork sitting in front of your Mac fiddling with your wacom. The only people that really know how it all happened are the ones who were there. Maybe we should have sent you in. You could have gently tapped on the door of the compound and politely asked Mr. Bin Laden to take a ride on your Vespa.

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If we 'The Western Democracies' think that our values and beliefs like liberty, free speech and justice are our most important exports we should act accordingly.

 

I don't know what kind of lame stuff Europe exports, but everyone knows our most important exports are Facebook and being awesome.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sF_IzqsTASA&feature=youtu.be

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but how exactly does that mean we have to forego bringing a mass murderer like Osama to justice?

 

Justice is one thing, it envolves a series of steps, listening to both sides, judging , etc., vengeance on the other hand...

 

My example is simple, a guy murders all the people you know IN THE WORLD, do you have the right to kill him? No... As soon as anyone has the "right" to do so, this person is given more power and then, this is NOT democracy. I think none of us are naive enough to believe theese people do not already exist, this is a problem we have for a long time. BUT if we stop questioning their right to do so, it is like putting in your constitution "Everyone is equal, except the people that are better". We can't say it was right just because it was for a cause you believed in. It is stating that the means justify the ends, and pretty much a lot of hairy things came from this affirmation. I remember seeing in a documentary years ago about Hugo Chavez, a woman was protesting against the military and the media trying to take him from the power, she was saying "I voted for him but i don't believe/like him anymore, BUT i want him out of there when his time ends, when what i agreed to happens, not a minute sooner, otherwise, this would not be democracy".

 

And another thing... if the guy used a woman as a shield... DON'T SHOOT IF THERE IS A CHANCE OF KILLING HER! That's why people take hostages, because WE VALUE LIFE, isn't it? That's what you said when you went on this war, because those people who died needed justice so their "souls" could rest in peace. As Mr.Spock (to quote a FICCIONAL CHARACTER created in the USA) would say "I value sentient life above everything". And don't tell me that if it wasn't her life, it would be their. The reports i read said there were six people in the house, three men, three women, against an elite team of your army?

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Justice is one thing, it envolves a series of steps, listening to both sides, judging , etc...

 

...it is like putting in your constitution "Everyone is equal, except the people that are better"

David Goldman would probably say that, "In Brazil everyone is equal, except the people that are connected to the judicial system."

Or he might say, "The Brazilian justice system is about as fucking corrupt as it gets."

 

 

"Brazilian special forces, or Un Batalhao De Forcas Especiais as they are known in South America, embody the motto 'any mission in any place, in any time, in any way,'

source: My link

 

Accomplishing a mission "in any way" necessary could entail some very unsavory methods in reaching the goal of the mission. Are you sure that your special forces would have acted differently under the same circumstances?

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Or he might say, "The Brazilian justice system is about as fucking corrupt as it gets."

Did i say my country's army is better or that our judicial system is better?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No.

 

I live here, i KNOW this and plenty more shit than you imagine about this country. I'm just discussing about Osama Bin Laden, if you want to make a thread about how shitty Brazil is, HEY! Call me ;)

 

edit: Just adding, here in Brazil we actualy say "Everyone is equal, except for the ones that are 'more equal'"

Edited by bvaz

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Justice is one thing, it envolves a series of steps, listening to both sides, judging , etc., vengeance on the other hand...

 

Yes, I understand the basic concept of justice. I too wish that Bin Laden could have been captured alive. And when he was convicted I would have been against executing him. I said justice was done because Bin Laden admittedly took responsibility for killing thousands of people. Please keep in mind that you have no idea what happened when those soldiers confronted him and those who protected him. Bin Laden's being unarmed does not mean that he posed no threat. This is the man who made suicide bombs fashionable. If killing Bin Laden rather than trying to take him alive prevented the death of even one of the people there, then it's hard to argue justice was not done. Many seem to be trying to judge the US's actions based on the incomplete information we have about the raid, and that is unfortunate and unfair.

 

I understand people look at the US through the prism of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. And believe me, if letting Bin Laden live somehow undid the injustice of those wars, I would gladly let him live. I also seriously doubt that Bin Laden ever intended to allow himself to be taken alive. Speculation of course, but one that's no less absurd than the speculation made by people who are outraged that an attempt wasn't made to bring in Bin Laden alive. I understand your skepticism, but I find it pretty terribly misplaced.

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Who are you to judge the situation? You're some dork sitting in front of your Mac fiddling with your wacom. The only people that really know how it all happened are the ones who were there. Maybe we should have sent you in. You could have gently tapped on the door of the compound and politely asked Mr. Bin Laden to take a ride on your Vespa.

 

You sound like a brain-washed terrorist.

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What are the sources? It may change again. Neither has any more credibility than the other until there is video.

 

IF the second is true, considering how many times Al Queda has video'd beheadings, or the fact that pregnant women jumped to their death from a burning trade center tower, I'm not feeling a ton of shame over this one. But again....IF it's true.

 

But it's the parenting really isn't it? If you don't want your daughter to witnes your cranium shattering, then try not and engage in activities like mass murder :P

 

You have seriously lost the plot.

 

The source was the BBC World Service.

Edited by destro

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