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AromaKat

Helvetica or Ariel

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You answered 17 out of 20 questions correctly, I guess that's not bad :-)

But to be honest, most of the people out there don't know that Helvetica

has an ugly brother called Arial.

(You have a typo in your topic title.)

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20/20. You can always tell by the R, A, M, and S. In this case, it got easier with logos that contain the lowercase T. Look at the caps of Helvetica T and Arial T, completely different.

 

But fuck Helvetica. Easiest to go with and it's a system default typeface on Macs. It is a well proportioned typeface, though. Based off of Akzidenz-Grotesk. And Arial...don't get me started.

 

P.S. It's Arial*...unless you were thinking about the Little Mermaid when you posted this.

 

P.P.S. They did a piss poor job of recreating some of the logos. I like that website, though.

 

P.P.P.S. If you're asking us the question of not being able to tell the difference, then you're in the wrong business. You have to love typography and treat it like your baby if you want to succeed in the graphic design world. Unless you just want to be a button pusher for the rest of your life.

Edited by pix3l

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19 here, I damned 3M.

 

And now for my rant! I'm sick of dull pedants and type snobs thinking they can spot 'good type' just because someone told them once that Arial wasn't as good as Helvetica and they sneer and point fun at sites/designs that use Arial, and speak in hushed reverence at sites that use Helvetica, preferably nice and big just like the designer intended (or not...). It's the equivalent of someone who thinks they can write good literature just because they know where to put the apostrophe in the sentence 'I'm a pompous dick'. Want examples? The tedious Apple apologist John Gruber is hot at the top of this list - you can almost hear the tiny tearful squeak of indignation as he finds the heinous font infecting his favourite TV shows and - gasp - his beloved iPhone. He's so gushing in his praise of Helvetica you'd think he'd designed it himself.

 

Of course, these fucktards have no idea why Arial's inferior - the use of Helvetica has become like a brand, something to tell people with no opinion/taste what they should like.

 

There - rant over! Phew.

Edited by ChrisC

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A good read:

http://mograph.net/board/index.php?showtopic=25070&st=40

 

Choosing a good font/typeface for a project unless the corporate design dictates one

is like choosing a good wine. Success comes with time and practice :-)

 

Helvetica: You take the standard everyone agrees on, but don't be talked about.

Crappy Typefaces: The bottle doesn't get opened, at least 2 years.

Good Typeface: You are invited again to the party, and don't forget to bring the wine that tasted so delightful and flavorsome.

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And now for my rant! I'm sick of dull pedants and type snobs thinking they can spot 'good type' just because someone told them once that Arial wasn't as good as Helvetica and they sneer and point fun at sites/designs that use Arial, and speak in hushed reverence at sites that use Helvetica, preferably nice and big just like the designer intended (or not...). It's the equivalent of someone who thinks they can write good literature just because they know where to put the apostrophe in the sentence 'I'm a pompous dick'. Want examples? The tedious Apple apologist John Gruber is hot at the top of this list - you can almost hear the tiny tearful squeak of indignation as he finds the heinous font infecting his favourite TV shows and - gasp - his beloved iPhone. He's so gushing in his praise of Helvetica you'd think he'd designed it himself.

 

:lol:

 

I assume this was directed towards me? If not, apologies.

 

But I have something to add...

 

Actually many design agencies are starting to use Arial (in print) because the general public is unaware of good typography. However, the general public is aware of good typography, but indirectly. It is up to the designer to instill good typography into their projects.

 

And I snicker at the fact that designers who enjoy and know how to use typography as a means of communication are being called "type snobs."

 

The thing about Helvetica is that it's the easiest "go to" typeface. Yes, it can still be used properly, but why when you have so many typefaces at your disposal? It's a system default for OS X for Massimo Vignelli's sake.

Edited by pix3l

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Yeah, I messed up the title. Have a couple of friends named Ariel. Just stumbled across it nd thought it would be fun to share.

 

17/20, and cringed after the 3M.

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19. Bloomin' Toyota.

 

I got 19/20. I got Toyota wrong. I guess you can tell with the O's but the A threw me off for some reason. Anyway, would someone care to explain why Helvetica is so much better, other than the fact that one is just "ugly". Because I may be learning, but when I see people say, omg Arial is hideous! It comes across to me as designers just being stick stuffed designers, and they should say what other "top" designers say. What is it about the letterforms that is so clearly awesome about Helvetica compared to Arial?

 

Personally I like how the terminals of the r and s are more straight and aligned. However there are many fonts that don't have this and are still seen as top fonts. And I also know that it has a lot to do with the negative space between the letters, but what exactly do you look for? Balance? I have done a lot of research on the fundamentals of typography, but I haven't found a lot of "Why"...only "What".

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:lol:

 

I assume this was directed towards me?

 

No, not at all! - sorry if that was how it came across.

 

But I have something to add... Actually many design agencies are starting to use Arial (in print) because the general public is unaware of good typography.

 

The problem I think is that a lot of businesses have the web as their primary presence, so the site tends to dictate the whole brand identity. The CSS has font: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif in its CSS, so suddenly Arial has become the 'company typeface' as far as body copy goes. Then the company expands a bit, they print their corp brochure and knock out a few print ads, and of course they use Arial.

 

And I snicker at the fact that designers who enjoy and know how to use typography as a means of communication are being called "type snobs."

 

Not the designers - by any means, I love a bit of rigour in my design. It's the commentators, reviewers etc who've learned how to spot the straight legged 'R' and, because they're clever enough to spot it, seem to think that the using Helvetica automatically elevates you above the un-educated masses, and using Arial shows you to be an ignorant hack...

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You answered 20 out of 20 questions correctly.

Just stick to the angle of the terminal, if it is parallel or 90˚ to the baseline, it's helvetica. In an office i used to work there was a helvetica "e" at the reception... i liked that "e" a lot.

The guy did a poor job cleaning up some of those brands before putting Arial on it, check the "the north face", you can see left overs from helvetica's F.

I'm not that good with typography, still have a lot to learn, but what some good designers have told me and i never forgot was that in the end, you will have a collection of "favorite" fonts, most of the time you will end up using one of them. And if really you don't know what fonts to put in this favorite collection, just chose it like wine, as Tezuka said, ask someone who knows about it some options and stick to them while you taste others and find your taste.

Edited by bvaz

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The problem I think is that a lot of businesses have the web as their primary presence, so the site tends to dictate the whole brand identity. The CSS has font: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif in its CSS, so suddenly Arial has become the 'company typeface' as far as body copy goes. Then the company expands a bit, they print their corp brochure and knock out a few print ads, and of course they use Arial.

 

 

 

 

 

In my opinion if any agency uses Arial, regardless if it's a standard for the web, needs to reevaluate their designers. Nowadays in the Web 2.0 era, nothing stops from an agency from using @font-face (CSS) to include other fonts on their website. I think this is the reason why studios which hire print designers to design their layouts and keep the web development separate are more successful, of course. Nowadays all projects are usually transmediated and not everything that is primarily on the web stays on the web—we have mobile devices, collateral, etc. So in other words, if you use Arial (I hate this face, by the way) or even Helvetica (You'll be forgiven if you use it properly), someone needs to slap your wrists.

 

Just speaking in general terms here. :)

 

Not the designers - by any means, I love a bit of rigour in my design. It's the commentators, reviewers etc who've learned how to spot the straight legged 'R' and, because they're clever enough to spot it, seem to think that the using Helvetica automatically elevates you above the un-educated masses, and using Arial shows you to be an ignorant hack...

 

I know exactly what you mean—the 15 year old bloggers on tumblr. However, one thing I DO appreciate about these folks is that they are starting to understand typography a bit. Obviously they are not using in real life applications, but starting to understand typography is a gateway drug to loving design in the future.

 

In my opinion, a good designer can use any typeface. It all depends on the context. Matter of fact, you can even use Comic Sans, if you use it in the proper context.

 

Love the advent of the internet and how much information it has to offer regarding different aspects of design—but nothing beats real life applications and what we do with it.

 

I know we went off of a tangent here, but I love typography (obviously :D ) and I could spend eternity talking about it. As long as it's a healthy conversation

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I will add to my last post in asking about the BASF logo. Can someone take the time to point out what makes the Helvetica version, so much superior to the Arial version. I understand they look slightly different, but what differences make one solid, whilst the other "hideous"?

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I got 19/20. I got Toyota wrong. I guess you can tell with the O's but the A threw me off for some reason. Anyway, would someone care to explain why Helvetica is so much better, other than the fact that one is just "ugly". Because I may be learning, but when I see people say, omg Arial is hideous! It comes across to me as designers just being stick stuffed designers, and they should say what other "top" designers say. What is it about the letterforms that is so clearly awesome about Helvetica compared to Arial?

 

Personally I like how the terminals of the r and s are more straight and aligned. However there are many fonts that don't have this and are still seen as top fonts. And I also know that it has a lot to do with the negative space between the letters, but what exactly do you look for? Balance? I have done a lot of research on the fundamentals of typography, but I haven't found a lot of "Why"...only "What".

 

Helvetica is a classic typeface that's been raped to death. It is legible in large or small point sizes. However, we're at a point where it has become so "trendy" that it's really boring. With so many type foundaries out there, I cannot fathom the fact that designers do not make a conscious choice to not use it. It is a timeless typeface, nonetheless. Serif and Sans serif typefaces have a voice to them and Helvetica is just "bland". There are many alternatives to Helvetica.

 

Arial was primarily created as an alternative to Helvetica (due to royalty concerns), but if you examine the typeface, it is not well proportioned and does not have the same characteristics that Helvetica does. So in other words, you're better off using Helvetica than Arial. But as always, depending on your medium. Arial is pretty much a web standard. It is good for certain things, but you're better off sticking to Helvetica.

 

However, if you are a typographer, you shouldn't be using Helvetica in the first place.

 

If you do not know anything about typography, don't use any typography at all. And I mean this for the motion people since almost everyone here does motion. Leave good typography to designers who know how to use type—or start understanding it yourself or ask friends who are good at type.

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I will add to my last post in asking about the BASF logo. Can someone take the time to point out what makes the Helvetica version, so much superior to the Arial version. I understand they look slightly different, but what differences make one solid, whilst the other "hideous"?

 

dY6It.png

 

Look at the top (arial) and bottom (helvetica).

 

Notice how the weight and proportions of Arial are not as smooth as Helvetica. The S on Helvetica is well proportioned and the curvature directly plays off of the other letters. Typography is not only per letter but how each letter interacts with each other. Try to squint your eyes and look at both of them at the same time. The squinting helps understand the flow of letters from one to another.

 

It just takes years and years to become sensitive to typography. You just have to be dedicated and understanding. In my opinion you can't be a good graphic designer if you do not know typography. You can make beautiful boards, illustrations, animations, models, but when it's time to incorporate typography, it will be your kryptonite and it will definitely ruin your images. When you become good at typography, it also helps your other skills.

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Sometimes I love the fact that I'm self-taught.

 

Do I like the way it looks? That's all I really care about. I love learning all the details about why one design looks better than another, but it still all serves the same purpose to me: I want it to interest me.

 

In every comparison I purposely DIDN'T look for the give-away signs. Just which one looks best.

 

Helvetica 18, Arial 2.

 

I'm not going to kick Helvetica out of bed just cause she sleeps around.

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Yeah, I don't know specifically how to spot which is which, but I just followed my gut instinct and voted for the one I thought looked better and got 18/20.

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Unless I missed it, no one has pointed out Arial was designed to be a cheap Helvetica knock off as opposed to just another font. Microsoft chose Arial instead of Helvetica (like Apple did) for it's OS font collection to avoid licensing fees for Helv.

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pix3l's BASF example is a good choice to show why Helvetica is such a brilliant piece of type design.

 

On the Arial version, the S disrupts the course of the eye as it scans the word as the terminals of the S are canted. Furthermore, the Arial F is a right old mess and there's no flow to the typeface. It is a pile of shite. Looking at the Helvetica version, there are no visual trip-ups or jarring forms. Each letter sits next to the other and it's a very easy read.

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