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killkillakillyo

this is how to plagiarize

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I can't figure out what you're trying to achieve with this thread.

 

Your original link looks more like What Barry Says than either of the two reference you listed.

It also looks like VERY typical infographic animation for the the last 5 years let alone 2011.

Neither MK12 nor Buck came to mind while watching the original piece.

 

-m

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Yeah, I agree Monkey. I thought the stuxnet piece was pretty well executed compared to a lot of the generic infographic animations out there. And it looks nothing like that mk12 piece.

Edited by nog

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this is purely subjective and i'll take the flak for my own opinions. if you can't see the similarities then maybe i'm just crazy. regardless of whether or not this was purely original or inspired, i think the stuxnet spot was fantastic and agree that it was well executed.

 

but where is the line drawn between inspiration and plagiarism? when isn't it coincidence anymore? do such things exist in this industry? just trying to spark a discussion.

 

 

Edited by killkillakillyo

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this is purely subjective and i'll take the flak for my own opinions. if you can't see the similarities then maybe i'm just crazy. regardless of whether or not this was purely original or inspired, i think the stuxnet spot was fantastic and agree that it was well executed.

 

but where is the line drawn between inspiration and plagiarism? when isn't it coincidence anymore? do such things exist in this industry? just trying to spark a discussion.

 

 

 

I think that, like it or not, plagiarism is as much a part of this industry as originality. It's that way with any creative industry. Someone with talent will create an exceptional work that breaks from the current trend and people will copy it (or "draw inspiration" from it) to appear new and innovative themselves. Eventually enough people will follow suit and it will become the latest trend that all your clients ask for.

 

I'm sure volumes have been written about the line between and 'taking inspiration from' and plagiarism, but my take is that it's always going to be subjective and blurry at best. The hard part comes when the people paying you try and push you over to the wrong side of the line.

 

Want an example of plagiarism? Earlier this year I was tasked with making some animations based on the branding for GDC 2011 ( http://www.gdconf.com/ ). Imagine my surprise when I saw this tutorial a couple weeks later.

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Someone with talent will create an exceptional work that breaks from the current trend and people will copy it (or "draw inspiration" from it) to appear new and innovative themselves. Eventually enough people will follow suit and it will become the latest trend that all your clients ask for.

 

Yep, the first person to copy it was maybe a plagarist. But by the time the 1000th person has copied the same thing, it's now a "style."

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It's always a good discussion to have, if only to maintain perspective.

 

We know a few things from the get-go: No idea exists in a vacuum. Human minds don't generate concepts NOT based on other concepts, or we'd progress by giant leaps instead of slow crawls. "New" ideas are really minor variations of older ideas. And most new work doesn't even bother to exercise itself in the realm of the new. So what we get is short bursts of slightly new things that are mimicked into oblivion, until we call those things "trends". Now honestly, trends are mostly the laziness or incompetence of the lowest common denominator, but I'm probably part of that and I'm not lookin to make myself sad today.

 

That said, trending is pretty much the standard, for better and worse. You can tell because we have names for things like "kinetic type" and "3d abstract" and "infographic". And once it has a name, well, it's essentially fair game. You don't really see anyone pointing fingers at half of the cars on the road and saying, "OMG, that's a rip-off of the SUV concept." No, it's an SUV because half of the cars on the road are hand-me-down ideas from the same camper-top truck monstrosity 25 years ago, and the only reason why that thing was "new" was because someone thought to weld the camper top to the truck. Brilliant.

 

So to say that the Stuxnet "visual essay" looks like the Waiting for Superman "visual essay" is sort of like saying the fire in my BBQ is just a rip-off of the fire in the flame broiler at Burger King. You're right. It's conceptually the same, looks, smells and cooks pretty similarly. But I'm finding use for my fire, as is the King. It fulfills a need. Maybe the originators of fire are diminished by my usage of their idea in my grill, but hopefully they'll get over it because the only way we move forward is if we're allowed to share and disseminate useful ideas amongst each other.

 

Note for copyright lawyers: I have no BBQ and maintain no fires™. I don't even have a patio®.

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Simply what Binky says, noting more to add.

 

(Or I might be accused of stealing somebody else's idea if I just repeat his words in a other way)

ooooooH, And before I forget to quote one of the greatest artist:

"Bad artists copy. Good artists steal" - Pablo Picasso

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but where is the line drawn between inspiration and plagiarism? when isn't it coincidence anymore? do such things exist in this industry? just trying to spark a discussion.

 

You're being too busy being a designer and winding yourself up over it... There no doubt are 20000 riffs on MK12 (and pretty much any other motion graphics style) out there that you don't know about and artists created because "the client liked it". Nothing to see here, everybody move on.

 

Mylenium

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Want an example of plagiarism? Earlier this year I was tasked with making some animations based on the branding for GDC 2011 ( http://www.gdconf.com/ ). Imagine my surprise when I saw this tutorial a couple weeks later.

 

Ouch, not even a reference to you or that site. He didn't even bother altering the design.

 

So would you say he was "inspired", or can you call him on his bullshit? It'd be nice if there was a blog dedicated to design plagiarism.

 

 

You're being too busy being a designer and winding yourself up over it... There no doubt are 20000 riffs on MK12 (and pretty much any other motion graphics style) out there that you don't know about and artists created because "the client liked it". Nothing to see here, everybody move on.

 

Just starting a conversation. Am I wrong to assume you don't pitch your own storyboards?

 

 

Again Binky. Pure gold.

Edited by killkillakillyo

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Am I wrong to assume you don't pitch your own storyboards?

 

Yawn. Some of us have better things to do than allow ourselves to be provoked on here. It happens ALL the time, and ALWAYS HAS. There's nothing new to talk about here. People will make their own minds up as they go along.

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Yawn. Some of us have better things to do than allow ourselves to be provoked on here. It happens ALL the time, and ALWAYS HAS. There's nothing new to talk about here. People will make their own minds up as they go along.

 

Who provoked what? It was a genuine question. Geez guys it's like stepping on glass around here.

Edited by killkillakillyo

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i thought by the orig post that kill was saying this is how artists plagiarize artistically

 

as in this is an example of acceptable derivation

 

but then it became a knock on people following trends and calling that plagiarism? if this was the first of its kind it would be good on another level, but its still good for what it is working in, a genre that has settled into its midlife and has a lot of the visual tools established to be used in storytelling - like filmmaking is now - a growing vocabulary of tricks, overlaid with a story, and the occasional blockbuster contribution of something new stylistically (wes anderson, or actually...)

 

for sure, that buck piece has become the most referenced "infographic" as late, which is a win for buck, just like the "stranger than fiction" piece got referenced to death by clients and CD's. thats what we all strive for, but sometimes it would be negligent to work too far outside of a known genre, just like writers might not want to publish a book loaded with russian for the english market even if that would be original as hell

 

but yeah the way circles animate in these days seems to be very inspired by the buck piece, seen that rippling through a lot of work. I dont think the offset trimmed circles started there though - it almost felt like i had seen it before when the buck piece came out, but Bucks was just so clean and strung together to be impressive and got seen by a lot of people - so it is now a major reference we all know of for the style

 

good thread though

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Binky said it well..

 

The Stuxnet animation was created for Australian ABC's "edgy youth current affairs" program 'Hungry Beast' for whom Patrick makes amazing info-graphics and design for week in, week out. He's done plenty of mediocre looking info-graphics before this one which was pulled out for the final episode.. best was saved for last

 

This is some work from the animator from Buck from years ago— i'm guessing he was inspired by something he'd seen whilst studying.

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Binky basically already said this, but really at the end of the day its "what the client wants" that makes the piece, and unfortunately i find rarely does a client want something 'completely original' (or as original as an idea could be)

 

Unless your experimenting, or have complete creative freedom, then most clients want things they can reference and follow the trends.

 

But hey Killa, its better to stand for something then stand for nothing :D

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Want an example of plagiarism? Earlier this year I was tasked with making some animations based on the branding for GDC 2011 ( http://www.gdconf.com/ ). Imagine my surprise when I saw this tutorial a couple weeks later.

 

And yet, that 'original branding' you were animating from was 'inspired' by countless examples of abstract cmyk shapes in space. Was someone out there the first to design exactly that way? Like Binky said, no one designs in a vacuum. Everyone takes inspiration from everything else. So what's the line between plagiarism and drawing inspiration? Obviously if you don't even bother to change the layout, the word plagiarism can be used. But I think many of you, especially killkillakillyo, are over-using the word plagiarism.

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And yet, that 'original branding' you were animating from was 'inspired' by countless examples of abstract cmyk shapes in space. Was someone out there the first to design exactly that way? Like Binky said, no one designs in a vacuum. Everyone takes inspiration from everything else. So what's the line between plagiarism and drawing inspiration? Obviously if you don't even bother to change the layout, the word plagiarism can be used. But I think many of you, especially killkillakillyo, are over-using the word plagiarism.

 

 

I was just making a statement that if you're going to plagiarize, make sure you cover all your tracks. Nobody else saw any similarities so I suppose that spot was well plagiarized. Or inspired, if you must. So this was aimed more to guide the newbie away from straight up tutorial rip-offs.

 

And like you and others have said, nothing is really original in the world of design, or at least it's safe to assume.

 

Am I using the word too much? Shit yes. But I saw some heavy influence and called it. Does it do any damage to his business? His ego? His life? I'd say so, which is why I think this discussion is so important and why clarifying the lines between plagiarism and inspiration are so important. Instead of hoping the new batch of designers know the rules coming in, or at least even recognize there are certain things you should and shouldn't do, I thought it wouldn't hurt to at least have ONE post on the topic.

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I thought it wouldn't hurt to at least have ONE post on the topic.

 

Of course. I don't see any problem discussing it.

 

I'm sure we could all do better at being more original, or at least more thoughtful with our work, and we could work harder at influencing our clients to want to do the same. But it's just so much less exhausting to not fight that fight. We're humans. We tend to be lazy. And so our work tends to be derivative of those who are either smarter and/or work harder than us. But even the smartest and hardest working among us had to learn from somewhere. Progress is usually slow. It's kinda the story of our existence.

 

 

 

Edit: I like the word 'derivative' better than plagiarized. To plagiarize is to lift something directly from someone else's work and use it as your own. I would say "to derive" in art/design means to take heavy inspiration from someone who put much more thought and effort into their work than you did into yours, and in so-doing using their efforts to boost your own credibility. But because you didn't put the work in yourself, it shows, and exposes the watered-down quality of your work. That is what we humans do way too often.

 

Even when I write "Like Binky said..." in a post, like I did above, it's like I'm trying to take some of Binky's credibility for my own, even though it's obvious I don't have the same level of experience and wisdom he has. But it's so easy to do. It's so easy to say "Me too!" rather than get my own experience and wisdom.

Edited by jayfaker

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i'm just saying

 

a) if the secondary piece is still good and not a blatant rip (thats debatable what that is) then its more in trend territory

 

B) the people who "start" trends (thats debatable also) in our little playground of mograph, get referenced a bunch (buck/jr canest, what barry says, stranger than fiction) so its good for their rep. does it suck for them to see derivative work, yeah, but isnt that part of the goal to create something new and catchy, and the fact that a style spreads, yet can still be identified as inspired by X, is good for X isnt it? simon robson has been able to create other styles than what barry says, its not like his bread and butter was ripped off and he put out of business

 

what everyone said about clients etc... and its the old picasso quote. that said, i thought there were some cool bits to this, it was just the circle animations that felt tired to me

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Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, and its because MK12 and Simon Robson have been copied so much, that their place in mograph history is secure.

 

Also, the thread is good, but the original post is nonsensical to me

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Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, and its because MK12 and Simon Robson have been copied so much, that their place in mograph history is secure.

 

Also, the thread is good, but the original post is nonsensical to me

 

Because you aren't reading between the lines.

 

Please no more ubiquitous quotes.

 

 

 

Edited by killkillakillyo

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Thanks for sharing. Pretty interesting link. Anyone know of a mograph counterpart?

 

 

They have commercial examples on that site. Be careful, this is a dark road you are heading down. It will waist your precious time and brain cells. It's like a Police Officer trying to take down all of Terrorism on his free time. Not worth it dude. I speak from experience. There will always be the people that fail upwards in life and the ones that get by while sitting on people's shoulders. Karma or God will bite them in the ass when the time comes.

 

As far as the examples you showed in your OP, I think you are looking into it to close. Those examples are more like demonstrations in evolving a old idea and trying to find someway to make it more. Just like how Hollywood films haven't come up with anything original for awhile. So they take what is old, slap some CGI on and repackage it with "Coming SOON".

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