Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Mousel

Mac Pro's future in doubt?

Recommended Posts

What do you say when you get a virus on the PC? Hey client I was surfing web to find PFtrack on demonoid and I hosed my system.

 

I haven't had a virus in... ten years? I can't actually remember. The only problem that PCs have that Macs don't is occasional malware, which you'd never run into if you're not torrenting or visiting sketchy porn sites, and even then becomes a non-issue if you have Microsoft Security Essentials (which is free).

 

Criticizing PCs for having viruses is like criticizing Macs for not having USB support. It stopped being an issue a long, long time ago.

 

(Also, as a small aside: fuck Finder. Worst piece of shit file browser I've ever used in my entire goddamn life. I curse it's name every day. How the core of an OS can lack and visual indication of where your cursor is in column view or totally neglect, after so many years, to have a way to refresh network folders is just... unbelievable. It's not keyboard-accessible. It crashes when it has trouble reading from network locations. OS X is not a bad OS, but Finder is a pile of shit.)

Edited by Aaron Scott

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

beau... How do you set up a 36 core machine on the PC side. I would absolutely be interested in that. I have an 8 core new i7 that is barely slower than my 12 core MacPro

I should've been more clear in that post. I wasn't talking about a single machine with 36 cores, I was talking about the fact I could get three 12-core machines for the price of a Mac Pro.

 

You won't be able to put two i7/i5s etc. in a single machine - one processor per machine means those are capped at one 6-core processor max (your "8-core" is probably actually a Quad with hyperthreading, resulting in 8 render buckets). Think of the i7s etc. as consumer processors, while Xeons are server processors. The Mac Pros shipped with two Xeons, which CAN have two processors working together on one machine. Those are truly 8 -12 cores, which with hyperthreading results in 16-24 render buckets.

 

Last I checked, Intel is about to release the follow-up to the Xeons, the Sandy Bridge-E series. This also means companies like EVGA are releasing dual-socket motherboards that will allow you to put two E-series processors on the same machine.

 

For those of you about to switch to PC who want top of the line, this is what you should be aiming for if you do lots of 3D:

 

A dual-socket LGA 2011 motherboard like this: http://www.tcmagazin...t-lga2011-board, with two of the new E5-1660 processors (around $1000 each), which are 6 cores each at 3.3Ghz. That motherboard has twelve DDR3 RAM slots, and last I checked I could grab three 8GB sticks for around $230 CAD. That means you could stick 96GB of RAM in there for roughly $1000. Altogether, once you get a case, video card etc. I'd expect it to cost between $4000-$5000 but you'd have the best possible workstation for motion graphics. Hell, for the cost of a Mac Pro you could afford to network two or three of these PCs together. Imagine rendering on that.

 

A combo like that will smoke any Mac Pro you've ever worked on, guaranteed.

Edited by beau+++

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thats still pretty sick and I like it. I actually just rebuilt a PC system with a fried MB last week and cost $500 for labor, MB, i7 new SandyBridge processor and 12 gigs or RAM. You can't even get a video card for Mac at that price. And the machine so pretty smokin fast too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some extra fuel for the fire. My $4000 dual-xeon machine gets a slightly higher Cinebench score than the 2010 Mac Pro in Nick's video here, while my oldish (2008) i7-920 gets something slightly lower than the middle machine. http://greyscalegorilla.com/blog/2010/11/12-core-vs-8-core-vs-2-core-cinema-4-render-speed-test/

 

The $4000-$5000 is completely worth it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

(Also, as a small aside: fuck Finder. Worst piece of shit file browser I've ever used in my entire goddamn life. I curse it's name every day. How the core of an OS can lack and visual indication of where your cursor is in column view or totally neglect, after so many years, to have a way to refresh network folders is just... unbelievable. It's not keyboard-accessible. It crashes when it has trouble reading from network locations. OS X is not a bad OS, but Finder is a pile of shit.)

 

And you can't merge folders. Nothing like overwriting a folder full of files with an empty one. I use both windows and mac equally at work. They both have their upsides and downsides. I prefer the Windows 7 OS over OSX for file management. Although why do details categories (ie. name, size, datemodified...) and folder views keep randomly changing?

 

Funny though, when Lion came out, everyone at my office went out and bought a touch pad. Same with the iPhone 4S...Apple knows how to squeeze money out of people.

 

 

-Spunj

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Although why do details categories (ie. name, size, datemodified...) and folder views keep randomly changing?

 

Assuming you're talking about Windows 7 here. Open up Explorer and go to a folder, any folder. Set up the details however you like them then hit Alt. Go to Tools -> Folder Options then the View tab. Hit "Apply to Folders" at the top of that panel and every folder system-wide will use your preferred folder-view.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No offense to anyone already using a Hackintosh as your primary workstation, but seriously to go that route instead of just using Windows 7...you are just ASKING for trouble. To all the folks considering switching to PC now, please for chrissakes just don't do a hackintosh. Windows and OSX are not that different from each other. Just learn how to use it.

 

A hackintosh is hands down the least reliable of all options available to you. Fine for personal computers, but for something you need to work on every day? You'd be nuts...NUTS I TELLS YA!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No offense to anyone already using a Hackintosh as your primary workstation, but seriously to go that route instead of just using Windows 7...you are just ASKING for trouble. To all the folks considering switching to PC now, please for chrissakes just don't do a hackintosh. Windows and OSX are not that different from each other. Just learn how to use it.

 

A hackintosh is hands down the least reliable of all options available to you. Fine for personal computers, but for something you need to work on every day? You'd be nuts...NUTS I TELLS YA!

 

I know I am coming into this discussion late but as far as the argument of them being unreliable, I have not found this to be the case. I have run into them at smaller studios and they did not have any snags. For personal use, it makes a lot of sense if your running a Mac Book Pro on the go. However, the differences are minimal between Windows 7 and Mac OSX, and could be equated to breaking in a new pair of shoes. It is more of a personal preference than a reliability argument in my opinion. I worked on one for almost a year and I loved it.

Edited by PeterJohn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hate the mac vs pc battle. People take it way to serious with their personal opinions. I prefer Macs over PC's but I work on PC everyday at work, why because its faster for the 3d work I am doing. But I hate PC's, I miss the "little" things that macs offer that just make my day to day life easier and enable me to give them less thought. Like space bar preview when going through files, file searching and file saving ect. At home I use Macs and in college I used Macs. Its the same reason I don't want to learn Maya. I am a designer and don't want to be a technician to do design work. If all things were equal in speed I would never use a PC. With that being said, I guess i'm stuck with the PC for now. They are both pretty equal at this point as far as I am concerned and going back and forth there isn't a whole lot of difference. But windows 7 would have never come about without the user friendly Mac competition. I prefer a company who thinks about that first. Ok, i'm going to go set a render on my PC Machine and then go home to my sexy Mac.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The main reason I bought a mac pro tower was to use final cut pro for editing jobs. A good chunk of places I'll work with

are all mac and use the final cut suite so it just made sense for me. Plus I really do love Mac OS X.

 

I do think pc's just run the software faster. I'd way rather use C4D and AE on a pc instead of a mac. I think the software just runs better.

 

My backup plan is to get an iMac or macbook pro with thunderbolt hooked up to an array for editing (if needed)

Then get a screaming PC for all my 3D AE stuff.

 

It's a bummer that apple has dropped so much support for professionals over the years. Even the new Final Cut Pro X release I think

shows how they are really gearing everything towards the consumer.

 

My two cents.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This whole thing is a rumor started by AppleInsider.com & all other rumor sites linking to it. AppleInsider.com is least reliable "rumor" site.

All rumor sites were 100% sure that this was the new iPhone.

 

 

 

 

iphone5screen.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This whole thing is a rumor started by AppleInsider.com & all other rumor sites linking to it. AppleInsider.com is least reliable "rumor" site.

All rumor sites were 100% sure that this was the new iPhone.

 

 

 

 

iphone5screen.jpg

 

Mostly accurate apple rumor sites aside, its fairly obvious with the moves they are making that they are out of the pro market. Have you been to an apple store lately? Its all Airs on display. There was one 15 inch macbook pro and one mac pro on display when I visited 2 weeks ago. Not to mention the change in their target customer base for FCP.

 

BTW - It still very may well be the next iPhone. The 4s isn't a next-gen phone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Couldn't they squeeze the MacPro box a bit? I don't need that many drives inside, as most projects need a whole eSata drive of their own. Thunderbolt can probably cover the need for some of those expansion slots (I currently have three spare slots on my MacPro). If they can get quad-core i7 processors into laptops and minis...

Mac Mini is 1400 cc vs Mac Pro at 49900 cc - you could fit 35 Mac Minis in the same space - that would be some render farm.

 

Maybe they could keep the cost down by coming up with some sort of stackable/rackmount type unit with a single top end graphics card, dual multi-core processors, a couple of hard drives and a single optical drive, no more than 4 RAM slots (32 GB chips are here already) and everything else handled by thunderbolt.

 

In fact given the advent of thunderbolt, I wouldn't be surprised if someone at Apple is already thinking about this...

Edited by basilisk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Look, the writing has been on the wall since they killed Shake, so no one should be too surprised. Yes, there was a time when the pro market kept Apple afloat. That was quite a while ago. If they were to continue building workstations, I would continue buying them. Even, if they stop building workstations, I'd still have a mac setup in my life, just to continue running all the igadgets and lifestyle/business apps. Too bad they can't figure out a way to cram two processors into an iMac (and more ram slots). I'd buy one in a second, but I don't see that happening as it would interfere with the aesthetics, which as we know is crucial. (seems silly, but it does make a difference). While I have recently found the Mac-mini servers (with i7 quad core/hyperthreading) to be excellent and cost effective additions to a C4D renderfarm, it's still important to have a beefy workstation up front with lots of ram and plenty of cooling to do the heavy lifting. I've been using my imac lately as my main workstation with my macPro as a render node to see if the iMac's can handle the day to day work. I'd say 80% of the time, an iMac is "good enough", but there's that 20% of the time that you really need a full blown workstation (certainly with AE). I'm very interested to see how the landscape will change shape if the macPro is discontinued. I'm about six months out from needing a new workstation and I'm certainly waiting to see where the community at large decides to swing. A few years ago I had quite a heavy investment in PC hardware vis a vis Boxx workstations. I could certainly go back that way as I was very happy dealing with their products and support. (switched to Mac for some specific FCP jobs and just kept with them). Part of me is tempted top see what kind of fire breathing dragon I could build from newegg. Luckliy, as a primary user of CS5.5 and C4D (like many people) I am not tied to any one operating system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

will be interesting to see if an FCPX update sorts out the problems and deficits users have been having. If Apple loses the pro video crowd then the MacPro will leach even more users.

I switched to Premiere Pro for the AE integration, and CS 5.5 seems to be able to handle all sorts of stuff, even without a cutting edge video card. I even threw a VOB in a timeline recently. Just have to train editors to export FCP files as XML and everything goes pretty smoothly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

deceasar, I bought into mac for FCP too. Now that it's dead, that's no longer a consideration.

 

 

I hear that man. I see switching to PC inevitable. Just want to get the timing right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

MacOS running legit on PC hardware. Come on Apple, stop being a bitch.

 

That's really what this whole thing boils down to. No one really gives two shits about the Mac Pro itself. I've said for years the dream system is OSX on PC hardware as long as it's blessed by Apple. Let Mac Towers die as long as Apple blesses OSX to live on in PC land. However I'm extremely doubtful this will ever happen. One of Steve's primary philosophies is to have control of all aspects of the user experience. They bent their rule on iTunes for PC, but that's it. I feel like it will be a cold day in hell when OSX will be "allowed" by Apple to run on PC hardware. BUT, Steve has passed (snif) and maybe Mr. Cook will change his mind.

 

Personally if I found out Mac Pro's are cancelled and there will be no official support for OSX on PC hardware, then I will always have my MacBook Pro for daily use, but I'll build a beautiful custom PC/Windows tower for all things that need to be quick: Nuke, AE, DaVinci, C4D, etc. I already use a PC for my Avid DS and that's on XP. But the point is that when you live inside your software to do work and it truly is a "workstation", the OS really kind of falls into the background. I'll just miss things like my Automator workflows which I've spent a lot of time in doing Pipeline efficiency work :(

 

I think people should stop obsessing on what is "pro" and what isn't. It's a label. Your output is all that matters. You *could* cut Apocalypse Now on iMovie, would that make it pro? Personally I always thought of FCP 7 a hunk of shit toy editor with no redeeming qualities other than basic cutting to generate an EDL. I always thought Mac Pro's were not quite Pro considering I would call "pro" a pimped out PC box running Linux. Shake next to Nuke was a slow hunk of shit, but still amazing films have all been done in Shake. Personally, I think FCP-X is the first "pro" thing they've embarked on in years. It is at ground zero right now but is finally doing what FCP7 and it's predecessors had failed to do. When it gets up to speed and you tie it on with Nuke or some usable software for finishing and see FCP for what it is: a cutting station then the magic happens. So now the only thing FCP has ever been usable for: cutting, is now faster and smarter and more streamlined without all the bloated dogshit effects and bad matting, coloring, and keyeing that was useless anyways. That's a more "pro" thing to do...give it time. This is the first time in 8 years I think I may ditch my Avid|DS and go to a FCP->Nuke pipeline.

 

Although, if I were to lay down $100 bucks, I would say MacPros will come out in the next 6 mos with thunderbolt and this whole thread was all a bunch of whining ;)

Edited by C.Smith

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...