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Beaver

No Mac Pro Fo Sho

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This is definitely the end. Yikes.

 

Edit: so there is a small, unannounced incremental update to the processor available, but nothing beyond that. Things like thunderbolt, usb3, etc, are still MIA.

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Yikes, actually got fooled by the rumours that this was all going to turn out OK after all. Nope. Even if they go ahead and do a stealthy upgrade in a month or so, they've shown their hand and where their target is, to be an expensive toy company.

 

Pooh.

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17" Macbook Pros are no more as well.. Retina display on a 15" does not make up for it. Unless all TVs are on retina displays, using one to work on seems ass backwards to me. You would have to start squinting to see native video.

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At first I saw the xeon model number and was like 'oh good, E5 Sandy Bridge processors' but nope, 'E5645' is previous gen. Might look into building a Hackintosh in case Apple ever gets their shit together and decides to support the pro market again (seems unlikely though). What PC manufactories do most people use for Windows workstations, HP/Boxx? This really sucks...

Edited by superegophobia

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@aroma - Im picking up what your laying down, but god damned I hate windows. I came up on it, way back on 3.1 all the way to XP. When OS X came out I didn't understand the whole Mac vs PC thing and thought it was silly. Until I bought my first mac and started running OS X. I just can't go back to windows. Im in too deep. I suppose thats my problem to sort out, but Im whiney and american and its just plain easier to complain about it on the internet....

 

 

 

 

 

I wonder is BeOS will make a comeback....

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Why?!? O_o Hackintoshes make no sense.

You know, software runs on Windows too....

I'd suggest that for people who are not technically-minded, OSX may be a more productive environment. I do literally zero maintenance on my macbook, and have no problems or work stoppages. To be fair, I haven't touched windows in like 10 years, and I'm sure it's better now. But the word seems to be that windows still has maintenance downtime and "hey I'm gonna fuck this up for you" moments.

 

The downside of hackintoshes seems to be that you're locked into the OSX point version that you build at, and updates/upgrades are a crapshoot. Given the alternative, I don't know that I would see that as a dealbreaker. But then, tell me I can have a maintenance-free existence in windows, and I'm all for it.

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At first I saw the xeon model number and was like 'oh good, E5 Sandy Bridge processors' but nope, 'E5645' is previous gen. Might look into building a Hackintosh in case Apple ever gets their shit together and decides to support the pro market again (seems unlikely though). What PC manufactories do most people use for Windows workstations, HP/Boxx? This really sucks...

 

Unfortunately there isn't really a brand that compares with the quality and cohesiveness of apple hardware. Dell and HP are all shitboxes by comparison, even the premium ones. Even though they're flimsy and kind of assy looking, they are pretty reliable now. I have been using windows for my 3D machines for a long time since I just need the raw power/price and it has worked out pretty well so far. Gaming rigs (like some of the alienware towers) really seem to hit the sweet spot when it comes to power for your money, but some of them look ridiculous. Just hide it away somewhere and get a nice looking monitor. :)

 

You also have the option of buying a "professional workstation" from dell or hp and you can get some upgraded processor options that way, but watch out for those "professional video cards" man. Those things are a ripoff. If you use C4D, look up cinebench scores. The "pro" cards don't seem to offer a whole lot of extra performance for the crazy markup they come with.

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Unfortunately there isn't really a brand that compares with the quality and cohesiveness of apple hardware.

Dell and HP are all shitboxes by comparison, even the premium ones.

If you use C4D, look up cinebench scores. The "pro" cards don't seem to offer a whole lot of extra performance for the crazy markup they come with.

"Shitboxes"? really? hehe....

Might wanna look again:

http://nycppnews.com...20-workstation/

 

Looks like a pretty "shitty" Cinebench score it gets over the Mac Pro;)

 

...not tryin to be coy, hehe, just searched for cinebench scores like you said, and it came up:)

Edited by ragecg

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"Shitboxes"? really? hehe.... Might wanna look again: http://nycppnews.com...20-workstation/ Looks like a pretty "shitty" Cinebench score it gets over the Mac Pro;) ...not tryin to be coy, hehe, just searched for cinebench scores like you said, and it came up:)

 

I think you really took a lot of that out of context. Beaver was saying the PC hardware looked/felt terrible, but the power was fine. And he said the Cinebench scores of the pro cards didn't offer a whole lot compared to the non-pro cards on PCs. Just to clarify.

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I wouldn't recommend any PC brand over another. The best deal can change from week to week.

 

If you're making the shift the PC I'd recommend making a post on this forum saying what you need or how much you have to spend. There are regulars here who keep track of where the current "bang for your buck" in PC based mograph machines is.

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I think you really took a lot of that out of context.
Really? Hm, I don't think I did, ..well, sorry if it came-off that way:)

It's tough to get emotion across over text:)

Regardless, I wasn't bashin him or anything, which is why I stated I wasn't tryin to be being coy:) Sorry if you misunderstood:)

 

Beaver was saying the PC hardware looked/felt terrible...
Indeed he did, right after stating: "Unfortunately there isn't really a brand that compares with the quality and cohesiveness of apple hardware. Dell and HP are all shitboxes by comparison, even the premium ones."

Those are the statements that peaked my interest really, which is why I decided to look it up, as he suggests:)

 

But if it really is all about the look of the CASE that's more important than making money, heck, then I've been doing things horribly wrong for 15 years, hehe....

 

And he said the Cinebench scores of the pro cards didn't offer a whole lot compared to the non-pro cards on PCs. Just to clarify.

I completely agreed with him on that point as Cinema doesn't take advantage of what the Pro cards (i.e. Quadros) have under the hood:(

http://www.maxon.net...quirements.html

 

I remember buying Maya back in 98 when it was first released for Windows at the low-low price of 10k, and when I made the switch to Cinema 4 years ago, I was mildly disappointed. :(

I say mildly, because the cash I saved being able to get cheaper cards (i.e. GTX 580/690 etc.) allowed me to buy another cpu/ram combo for my dual-socket server mobo so all was right with the world as far as render-speeds again:)

 

Also, I just checked out that Macrumors link , and I find it interesting that, at least on that page, (and even in the forums), every single comment is .... well... not good for Apple, or the writer of the article...

I mean, in a LOT of those comments, those people are PISSED. Wow....

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Why?!? O_o Hackintoshes make no sense.

 

You know, software runs on Windows too....

 

it's just the mac os literally requires the operator to do nothing and it works

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Yeah, to clarify, my point is that the case & many components on PCs tend to be super cheap, despite having the latest intel processors, ram & HD options. The last PC I ordered, the CD tray door fell straight off the first time I opened it, and the ESATA port was warped to the point where I couldn't connect an external drive. That kind of stuff generally doesn't happen with apple machines. High end PCs are like corvettes, you know it's going to be fast, but you also know it's going to be a chevy.

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Buying cheap PC gear is good, but if you spend $7 on a keyboard you gotta know it's not going to do it's job. Buying the very cheapest brand is usually a bad idea. At least stick to a brand that has a website without spelling mistakes.

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I'd suggest that for people who are not technically-minded, OSX may be a more productive environment. I do literally zero maintenance on my macbook, and have no problems or work stoppages. To be fair, I haven't touched windows in like 10 years, and I'm sure it's better now. But the word seems to be that windows still has maintenance downtime and "hey I'm gonna fuck this up for you" moments.

@aroma - Im picking up what your laying down, but god damned I hate windows. I came up on it, way back on 3.1 all the way to XP. When OS X came out I didn't understand the whole Mac vs PC thing and thought it was silly. Until I bought my first mac and started running OS X. I just can't go back to windows. Im in too deep. I suppose thats my problem to sort out, but Im whiney and american and its just plain easier to complain about it on the internet....

it's just the mac os literally requires the operator to do nothing and it works


Give Windows 7 a shot. Its pretty solid. Its a different way of doing things, but those switching from Windows to Mac would have the exact same gripes about basic OS functionality. I guess the "hey I'm gonna fuck this up for you" moments might happen if you enable automatic updates for the installed software and you end up with an unstable release, or if you go to shady websites / download illegal software that has viruses. Viruses / malware aren't even really a concern of mine anymore like it was back in the pre win7 days.

I do enjoy jumping around in OS X more, and hope is that as Apple starts making more and more money from their app store, they will be more open to installing their OS on whatever hardware you choose. Until that is more officially supported, installing it hackintosh-style would be much more prone to randomly leaving you stranded.

Also, unless its a laptop, never buy a Windows workstation from Dell, HP, etc. If you do, wipe it immediately and install just plain ol' OEM Windows Pro on it to get rid of the pre-installed bloatware. PCs are primarily marketed for their cost-effectiveness, which tends to lead to sub-par experiences due to cheap hardware and unneccessary software pre-installed to make some extra cash for the manufacturer. Alienware and Boxx are the best options for pre-built machines if you can't bear the thought of opening a computer case up, but I never understood the fear of building a PC from scratch. Its like being scared of blowing up your computer because you think its possible to somehow plug a firewire cable into a USB port. Its stupid easy and nearly impossible to fuck up.

Just don't be so scared of Windows that you can't at least check it out and end up settling.
Edited by AromaKat

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Yeah, put me in the "this blows" column as well. About the last thing I want to do is deal with a new OS (this creeps in as you get older). And I know damned well that as soon as I get a PC workstation up and running Apple will announce a new Mac Pro with a quantum processor that renders your 3d animations before you think about them. Or something like that.

 

I have to admit that as much as Apple has been giving us the bird, this tiny upgrade doesn't make much sense if they're going to kill off the line. I followed a thread somewhere about the "new" processors they just put in and it seemed pretty clear that the only reason they were updated is because Intel isn't selling the previous ones any more. It's possible they're just laughing at us and seeing how many of these now obsolete boxes they can sell, but if I had to guess I'd say that they have a fairly major redesign/ upgrade in the lab that just isn't going well. Despite their obvious emphasis on the consumer market now, the current Mac Pro situation is just bad business. I can't imagine them planning it this way.

 

A nice little irony in all of this is that I might end up being one of those idiots that buys one of these old lumps just to avoid going over to Windows for a bit longer.

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About the last thing I want to do is deal with a new OS (this creeps in as you get older).

I know how you feel:(

Im 40, and I've had to turn down some on-site freelance jobs because all they had were macs.

I hate having to tell the client that the first 3 days will be spent just getting used to another OS:(

 

So yeah, I feel you, and it happens on both sides of the force;)

 

Regardless, It's really a shame that Apple is doing this to you guys:(

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After years of being on Mac my next tower is going to be a PC because I don't want to gamble on Apple not EOLing all their pro stuff. So for someone like me who knows nothing about PCs and is used to paying a premium for something that is rocksolid and just works is getting a system configured by BOXX or something similar a good option, or just a stupid waste of money?

 

Oh yeah and how the hell can they not even add Thunderbolt support to the new towers, really apple, really?

Edited by anothername

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After years of being on Mac my next tower is going to be a PC because I don't want to gamble on Apple not EOLing all their pro stuff. So for someone like me who knows nothing about PCs and is used to paying a premium for something that is rocksolid and just works is getting a system configured by BOXX or something similar a good option, or just a stupid waste of money?

 

Oh yeah and how the hell can they not even add Thunderbolt support to the new towers, really apple, really?

 

If you are accustomed to paying a premium and want piece of mind, yes, BOXX is a great option. They are really friendly and will custom-build the machine for you, ready to rock and roll when it arrives at your door.

 

Those guys really push the hardware to the max (stable), so you don't have to fux with bios settings, overclocking, etc. They hook it up with water cooling, install the drivers..... everything. It may be worth the money to have them build it if your new to building PCs and can afford the extra cash. You would really only be saving about $700 to build it yourself, and the time it saves to have them build it may be worth it to you. In my opinion, they use far more cutting edge and top-notch hardware than Apple does, yet they fall in about the same price point.

 

Just keep in mind that at Boxx they pretty much custom-build the machine you want, so it takes a couple of weeks to actually get it.

 

I called their sales rep interested in their 16 core 2.8ghz system, and after finding out that we had a render farm on-site and don't render locally she talked me DOWN into getting a 4.6 ghz hyperthreaded quad core (8 virtual cores), offering better working performance while saving me thousands. That's pretty awesome if you ask me.

Edited by AromaKat

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