Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
jayfaker

New Mac Pros... here we go.

Recommended Posts

Thanks for the info. I guess I'll just have to wait for Adobe and Maxon to use OPENCL.

 

I found from Nvidias site the current GPU drivers already let OPENCL run on the CUDA hardware.

https://developer.nvidia.com/opencl

 

I'm pretty sure The Adobe Cloud stuff already uses OpenCL. I just have mine set to CUDA since i'm on the Retina Mac w/ Nvidia.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I am willing to bet by time the Mac Pro hits the virtual shelves, Smoke, Nuke, Adobe, Resolve, etc, etc will be ready to go on those AMDs w/ OpenCL (if they aren't already).

 

 

Resolve 10 on the new Mac Pro:

 

http://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=8898#p56608

 

 

---------------------------------------

Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:33 pm

Hi,

 

We have been testing with DaVinci Resolve 10 builds and this screams. Its amazing and those GPUs are incredible powerful. I am not sure what I can say as I am only going off what Apple has talked about publicly here in the keynote for what I can say right now, however there is a whole new OpenCL and DaVinci Resolve 10 has had a lot of performance work done to integrate it and its really really fast. Those GPUs are very powerful and have lots of GPU memory so this is the Mac we have been waiting for! We have lots of Thunderbolt products too so video in and out is taken care of.

 

We will have more details once the guys get back from WWDC and we get some more info from Apple on what we can talk about etc.

 

Overall we could not be happier!

 

Regards,

 

Grant Petty

Blackmagic Design

---------------------------

 

 

 

EDIT: BMD Thunderbolt products: http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/ultrastudiothunderbolt/techspecs#31783

 

 

Edited by mario5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You guys seem to forget that Apple might be slow but they're not 'just some guys building a computer'. If they deliver 'new' pro tech it has historically been high performance. Most people are still mac based, if there is something new believe that DCC partners are in on it.

 

You might not like the look of it, it might seem like there already is something out there with 12 cores & it might seem 'they ignore NVIDIA and put in some random AMD tech' but it only seems that way. There is always a strategy. As far as this thing costing 10k: it will be expensive but never forget, building only 1 type of machine gives you mad economy of scale.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, don't expect a doubling in price all of a sudden, when has that ever happened?

 

Agreed on this and your above comments. It makes no sense for Apple to go through such a monumental engineering effort just to make something small that isn't going to do the job for most pro users. Their strategy inevitably won't make everyone happy, but this is not the half assed effort some seem to be making it out to be. It seems clear that they are going to push the industry towards Open CL, and they are doubling down on Thunderbolt. This is typical Apple, like it or not. I think once the picture fills in a bit with software and peripheral manufacturers, this will be a robust pro strategy. But it's not going to be for everyone.

 

I'm not really understanding the violent reaction some are having to the idea of connecting things via Thunderbolt either, but to each his own. Would we be better off with a 4 foot tall box that could theoretically hold anything you'd ever need, but would be left mostly empty by 95% of users? Some of you are saying yes and that's fine, but again, this is Apple. There are dozens of companies that will sell you a big box that you can stuff anything you want in. It's not like Apple to jump in with a "me too" product. They've clearly put a lot of thought into redefining what a "pro" solution can be. Whether that ends up being better in the long run than the status quo, we'll have to wait and see.

 

One more thing: I love reading the reactions to the design. I'm not saying everyone has to like it, but a lot of the backlash just comes off as a crippling fear of change. I mean seriously, did you expect this to look like HP's latest tower? Do you really want it to?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Frizzle: I think the success of this machine is going to depend heavily on 3rd parties getting behind it in a big way. The more I think about it, the more I "get" where they're going with it. I see it as a ton of processing and GPU power, and then everything else (storage, i/o) is kind of roll your own with the various TB2/USB3 ports. It will be very powerful if everyone gets behind OpenCL in a big way. I know very little about OpenCL at this point, but maybe it's the next big thing, who knows. If you can harness all that GPU power in a meaningful way for both processing and real time graphics, then this machine offers a lot more value to me.

 

I'm still pretty skeptical though. The high performance computing market is so commoditized at this point. In other words, people are comparing the processing power with the amt of money they're spending, and making cold, analytical decisions on what to buy. Sexy hardware isn't going to sway these people. It has to offer something more.

 

It could easily offer more in the way of stability. If it became a popular machine, developers would be targeting it for testing and/or exclusive software or features, and that would be dandy. I think mograph pros have been in limbo for a while, and it would be nice to have a reliable go-to machine for motion graphics. I'm definitely rooting for it, I just don't know if they can pull it off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I'm still pretty skeptical though. The high performance computing market is so commoditized at this point. In other words, people are comparing the processing power with the amt of money they're spending, and making cold, analytical decisions on what to buy. Sexy hardware isn't going to sway these people. It has to offer something more.

 

Exactly for me this is all it is. I could honestly care less about the design. It could be a giant box or small sphere or shaped like a freakin moose for all I care. When we upgraded machines last all we looked at was the cost per cineabench score and what would actually be the most responsive workstation for day to day use. I am sure that there is a huge amount of strategy and design behind this or there would be no point in Apple releasing this to the market. With the direction they took final cut, I am skeptical as to the direction they are taking their pro line thats all. If this new machine is truly something that screams and is a wonderful new door opening in computing, I am more than happy to jump on it (provided that I can't buy a new PC station and another 2-3 render nodes for the same price that is).

l

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wouldn't underestimate the power of sexy hardware. I agree that most pros aren't going to buy what they feel is an inferior machine just to have something cool on their desk, but if it's at least in the ballpark as far as performance goes, why not buy something you actually want to look at? I really don't care much what my washing machine looks like either, but if it comes down to a choice between two models that will do the job for roughly the same price, I'll take the one with better industrial design every time. I will even pay a certain premium for good design, even with mundane appliances.

 

Keep in mind that most of the target audience for this machine are creative people, and creative people are suckers for good design, sometimes to the point of making irrational decisions. Time will tell whether buying one of these falls into that category or not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ignoring the shape for now...

 

One snippet I missed the first time round is that it's 'up to 12-core' - so even maxed out, it won't be up the level of the render boxes, 2x8 or 2x12 core, just by factor of the number of threads.

 

FirePro cards - well it depends on the drivers doesn't it? OpenGL4 has been mentioned, don't know enough to understand if that means much for 3D app editor performance?

 

From a purely 3D perspective, rather than video editing, I'm a bit sceptical at the moment...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, I was a bit disappointed at "up to 12 core"as well. They seem to be really betting on GPU over CPU, but as you say, it will come down to drivers, 3rd party implementation, etc. I also noticed that there seems to be only 4 RAM slots, which means memory could get pricey.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll step out and say it, "I want one". But I have always been an Apple sucker. Hell when Taco Bell rearranges their 7 ingredients and comes out with a new taco incarnation, I'm first in line.

 

But, knowing that Apple is the "Avid" of computer systems, they are making one unified system that is "Great" for most people who will buy and use it. Such as myself. I'm going to want it for a range of things as I assume many users will be. Apple has never allowed near as much tinkering as a PC system, not even close. So why any of us would talk about how closed off some of it's features are is probably a waste. Apple has NEVER been very expandable. They give you the illusion of it but letting you pick one GPU over another in the past, but that's not REALLY expandability. I think they nailed it on this round (ASSUMING the world we use is fully OpenCL compliant). I am also willing to roll the dice that OpenCL modules will pop up over TB2. And you can have a small and cute render farm on your desk at some point. I think it's half Apple knowing the future and taking a good stab at it and the other half is people simply making their wares to fit whatever Apple thinks is the future (despite if they're right or not).

 

I've been living in a Thunderbolt world since getting the Retina laptop last year as my only computer for now. Been great. Have a TB Pegasus RAID, a Black Magic UltraStudio, a Thunderbolt SxS reader for dumping in the Alexa cards, the TB Apple monitor doing the last weird conversions I need like FW800 and being the Ethernet port. So, to me PCI cards are dead EXCEPT for GPU. I suppose those who use a Red Rocket will be miffed, but other than that, BlackMagic and a few other companies have about everything I would ever need through TB. The 2 cards in the new MP will clearly suffice for monitoring and the assumption is that they can do a little ass kicking in the OpenCL processing as well. So IF we can buy some extra OpenCL through TB2, I would have nothing to bitch about, and it will be exactly what I want in a comp.

 

IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Breaking News!

 

New Mac Pro line shipping with Fleshlightcapabilities for male users. This new, soft penis port has been added to help you bond closer with the design of the machine...

 

Ha! I was actually counting the seconds until someone alluded to it being Vader's cock. This will be close enough ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Ha! I was actually counting the seconds until someone alluded to it being Vader's cock. This will be close enough ;)

I thought I was being clever by calling it first, but apparently I'm 18 hours late on the call. Even Fleshlight™ made a public statement playfully calling out infringement about the mac pro. They have a fleshlight that looks pretty close believe it or not.

:wub:

Meme city here we go!

 

Edit: NSFW link to the fleshlight model in question omitted. I'll let you guys hunt for it on your own.

Edited by BoArlander

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Um.... I actually kinda like it, but am having a hard time justifying a purchase of one for anything beyond use as an edit bay workstation. For editing, I think this is a perfect set-up. For more power useage, I will be sticking to Windows.

 

The design was shocking and I hated it at first, but the concept grew on me, especially for an editor's workflow.

 

I was about to completely dismiss it before I looked into this OpenCL stuff. If OpenCL doesn't take off in a big way, and fast, I don't see it being worth much. But this pretty much guarantees everyone will start building their software around it.

 

There a ton of marketing spin on this that everybody is just eating up without much inquiry though. There is so much happening in the computer hardware world, and for those that follow such things will see this as a giant 'meh' compared to the new offerings announced lately.

 

My thoughts:

 

CPU

There is only support for one, middle of the road 12 core processor. The E5s are the mid-range series of the new Xeons. Wait and watch.

 

There is no mention of clock speeds.

 

 

GPU

I am completely confused about the video card. The first thing in your workstation to get outdated, is now an integrated part (from what I can tell). Can you remove those boards and pop in new gpu processors if you want to upgrage? Is upgrading your video card completely out of the question now?

 

All they are saying right now are 'workstation class' ati firepro (ATI's overpriced line for suckers akin to the Nvidea's quadro line). What model, exactly? Is it using eyefinity to power those displays and is a cheap card or is it the w9000 that costs $3,500 alone? Why is there only one HDMI out on the box?

 

 

Memory

1866 isn't the super-fast thing they are touting it to be. Its middle-of the road. But ECC... nice touch.

 

SSD

Nice. Been an option in the PC world for 2 years now, but has been EXPENSIVE. Like.... $2k for 128gb expensive. Lets see what this does to the price point.

 

No mention of Xeon Phi

One of the largest dissapointments for me. Link to what Phi is, in case you haven't heard yet:

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Intel-Xeon-Phi-Coprocessor-CPU,22700.html

 

I just want.... maybe 16 cores running at 4.5ghz with a Phi in there for rendering. I could then ditch the render farm and save on power.

 

 

No 10Gbe

Right as on-board 10Gbe becomes a thing, they stick with 1Gbe. Bummer. BTW- what are shops with fibre going to do?

 

 

Thunderbolt (2)

I don't know much about thunderbolt, but the idea of cramming 6 different devices into a single PCI bus makes me worried about performance of those devices. I get the approach here, and will work, but 1) those displays are going to automatically eat up a large percentage of your available thunderbolt connections. 2) We will probably need to start taking certain things into consideration when daisy-chaining different things. Like... if I wanted to put my titan on there for processing, but can't put a raid array on the same chain because it could cause problems. (I don't know if it would, but I would be rather uncomfortable with it).

 

Again, I think this will be a solid little workstation. Its definitely a long-term kind of purchase because you are LOCKED in once you pick up a model. Want an upgrade? Another 10k to start over, please. I will throw Avid MC and Resolve on it which will run just dandy on it. Outside of rendering, I'm sure it will do fine in mograph too, and for a decent amount of time. Keep your render farms though. By the time this comes out, a proper PC build will put it to shame in terms of specs, guaranteed. But not everyone needs the ridiculous horsepower that will be available to us in Q3. (I do)

I will definitely be getting it for use as the edit bay, because an edit bay only needs so much. 4k support is all I needed to hear in that regard.

 

 

BTW - Resolve and everything else has been running like butter over here on PCs for a long while. I don't think comparing performance against the previous mac Pro isn't really a fair yardstick to use for performance reviews in the grand scheme of things.

 

 

**edited to fix B+) together forming into a smiley with sunglasses

Edited by AromaKat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah i posted that too but there is zero DCC software using it. But since OpenCL is getting shoehorned into our workflow there might be shortly.

 

@Aromakat

 

I don't see how that's a middle of the road CPU. It's a single socket yet to be released Xeon. There is only so much return on investment you get from stacking CPU's before it gets waaaay to expensive. Dual socket boards cost you your soul.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So... you know it's new tech don't you? it's the far right one in the picture if you mean middle of the road?

 

Everyone wants more cores without paying for it but you do understand that:

 

1) if your workflow is seriously hampered by the lack of 4 cores then this implies the solution will probably actually not be in having those extra cores.

(as in: your problem is several orders of magnitude beyond a few cores)

 

2) this is not a $20K machine.

 

/edit

 

I see it's a new release of the E5 set. For me that's hardly a problem, it's a tripling.

Edited by parallax

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...