Showreels

[Guest fredcamino]

oh, um, i'm a music pirate and i don't care. i really really don't. like i said before, all i care about is firm breasts and the crevice where a woman's ass meets her thighs.

[Guest George.]

oh, um, i'm a music pirate and i don't care.  i really really don't.  like i said before,  all i care about is firm breasts and the crevice where a woman's ass meets her thighs.

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i would like to agree with fred both on the music and women subjects. mmmmmm, damn titties are great!

 

 

PS you are a funny cu*t headbox

Edited March 2, 2005 by George.

[Guest bennett]

I think the issue of using copyrighted music in demo reels is murky at best. Incorporating a piece of music for "fair use" means that the end product should be either educational and/or nonprofit.

http://www.umuc.edu/library/copy.html#fairuse

 

Since there are no set guidelines for what qualifies as "fair use", determining factors are:

- purpose and character of use

- nature of the copyrighted work

- amount and substantiality of use

- effect of use on potential market for the copyrighted work

 

I personally feel that demo reels are nonprofit. I wouldn't charge anybody for a copy of my reel. And I don't think anybody else charges for their reel. Hence, there is no profit. Headbox's point is that the "demo reel" as a promotional tool might or might not lead to paid work. This is true. (In that case, should we only pay royalties if the reel lands us the gig?) I would argue that we get paid for the work that is completely independent of the reel.

 

150 years ago people had slaves, because... well you know... everyone else did too.

Wow. headbox, I hope you don't think we'd let you get away with that. I think that you could quash much of the hostility by offering up your work as a shining example of mograph on a hill. Completely free of copyrighted music of course...

[Guest Sao_Bento]

>>I personally feel that demo reels are nonprofit.<<

 

Actually, by getting a job with your reel, you're directly profiting from stealing someone elses music. If I was a lawyer, I could easily make a case that a certain percentage of the money you made as a result of that job is owed to my clients. This is how every case that involves using someones image without permission works.

 

Also, the idea that somehow someone is looking at your "design skills" and completely ignoring the music (except for Govinda who turns the sound off) is ludicris. If the music doesn't play a part, why put it on there? The truth is that when you watch any video, your impression is of the whole, not it's pieces. The interrelation between sound an images is extremely powerful - in fact, it's the whole foundation of film editing.

 

In the case of most designers, it's not worth the court costs to pursue.

 

Of course I only use original music that I play on my Berimbau / Atabaque / Pandeiro ; )

 

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...=music&n=507846

 

eeeeyeeeeeaaaaayyyyyyyy viva meu deus, camara.

Edited March 2, 2005 by Sao_Bento

[Guest fredcamino]

Also, the idea that somehow someone is looking at your "design skills" and completely ignoring the music (except for Govinda who turns the sound off) is ludicris. If the music doesn't play a part, why put it on there? The truth is that when you watch any video, your impression is of the whole, not it's pieces. The interrelation between sound an images is extremely powerful - in fact, it's the whole foundation of film editing.

 

 

oh i totally agree with this. i attribute all jobs from my crappy reel due to the jorge ben track i edited to. but am i going to let jorge know this? (no, because i'm a pirate/asshole)

[Guest parallax]

I too download mp3's like its going out of fashion. But then again, 95% of the music is pure crap, but luckily, the delete button is only inches away. On the other hand, when something is worth buying i've got no problem splashing down the $26 a CD costs overhere.

 

As a last resort i can always count on the fact that our law states i can download 6 Trillion CD's for free, without repercussions as long as i don't sell or share. (yes, i'm a non-sharer)

 

And this is a non-issue.

Edited March 2, 2005 by parallax

[Guest igorschmigor]

Well guess what-

 

1. Music isn't played for free over the radio.  Artists get paid per airing, per station.

2. If you buy a CD you don't own the music, you paid for the right to listen to it whenever you want.

3. "Self promotion" doesn't apply to a demo reel you are using to get paid work.

4. Any music recorded since 1922 can't be used without permission.

5. Music doesn't even need to be officially copyrighted- all someone has to do is show proof they are the one who created it.

6. Most mograph music pirates don't even give credit where it's due in their reels.

7. I hate assholes who think music is public property and their hard work and creativity has no value.  I don't care if college students, internet pirates, and whiners who say "that's how it's always been" hate me- there is widespread theft of property going on in the world; movies, music, and software, and something needs to be done about it.  If you try to justify it, you're just another thieving asshole.

 

At least have the balls to say "I'm a music pirate and I don't care" instead of trying rationalize  it.

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Yes Sir *nod, nod*

[Guest bennett]

Both headbox and Sao make a valid point. In a court of law, a lawyer could prove that demo reels lead to profit. Although I'm sure it would hardly be worth hauling someone into court for. (Does anyone know if there has ever been such a case?) Also, my previous argument for only paying royalties if there is a fee charged for the reel seems silly if applied to the commercial realm.

 

I still see some murkiness with issues such as:

- personal, experimental pieces

- student reels

 

Also, I completely agree that a reel's audio cannot be considered separate from the visual. Some of the best reels on this board are elevated by musical choice. But how do you determine how much the music counts percentagewise versus graphics? Is it split 50/50? 60/40? Giving credit should solve this.

 

Besides, like govinda pointed out, "our infinitesimal circle of reels" barely makes a splash in Piracyville. Although I think studios and incorporated(?) freelancers should be more inclined to pay for royalties. Right now, it doesn't seem like the studios care so I don't either.

 

Nevertheless, I'm with Captain Fred and his band of Music-Stealing Pirate Assholes. Raping and pillaging the open mograph seas. Animate dripping paint or walk the plank...

Edited March 2, 2005 by bennett

[Guest headbox]

when was the last time you looked inside a cd case and it said "illegal to be used in motion graphics demo reel". i've got a beach boys cd (not mine) in front of me and all it says is 'unauthorized duplication is a violation of applicable laws'.

 

That's the worst argument ever. When I took my drivers test it didn't say I couldn't load a U-haul truck full of explosives and destroy a building.

 

You can't even make a copy of a CD to give to a friend without breaking the law. What makes anyone think you can use those same songs to promote your work to make money? It might seem stupid at first, but what if one guy purchased 100 CDs and made a copy for his 100 closest friends? That's a lot of CDs with no money going to the artist.

 

Another example for you: ever heard of MUZAK?! Yeah, you know... elevator music. Well places of business can not play a radio station where customers can hear it. A friend who works in retail has told me how they are often checked to be sure they purchased their muzak license. If some hippie is working in a coffee shop and playing his Greatful Dead a little too loud, the store can be slapped with a lawsuit.

 

And thank you Fred for being honest.

[Guest igorschmigor]

This time i really have to agree with headbox. That was a BAD argument.

[Guest clintvideo]

Let's not forget that if you remix a song without permission you're violating even another part of copyright law. Remixes have to be done with permission from the copyright holder. IMHO that includes editing the song to the length of your demo reel.

 

Even the places that do get away with playing sound clips, like sports arenas and stuff, all have blanket licenses.

 

Until recently this would be an issue of "yeah, it's illegal, but nobody's frying the small fish." That's obviously not the case as the MPAA and RIAA start targeting individual users. If they manage to get an infrastructure in place that makes it easy to go after any person they spot using their music without permission, that'd really clarify this issue

 

Clint

[Guest SermonOfMockery]

ah who cares

[Guest igorschmigor]

You should use that as your sig so you don't have to repeat it.

 

Of course 12 year old girls have other things on their mind ...

[Guest govinda]

I just got off the phone with Mrs. Beziér at her home in Claremont-Ferrand in France. She'd like everyone to know that every usage of a beziér curve from now on in will cost $.0008, and she expects payment to her PayPal account. She just wanted me to say that here for her.

 

Hold that thought, Euclid's IM'ing me on a party line along with Pythagoras spouting some crazy Greek rant about wanting royalties for the usage of certain shapes, circles I think it is, also rectangles, cones and salamanders. Dunno about that last one though, Babelfish isn't so good with ancient Greek...

[Guest Resbot]

And some cavemen visted me in a dream last night complaining about how everyone has stolen their idea of making marks on a surface to represent objects, places, or ideas.

[Guest silatix]

i know its a bad argument.. i was trying to poke fun at the fact that you are taking this shit way to seriously man.. calm down before your ulcer bursts..

 

ps.. can we see your demo reel?

 

That's the worst argument ever.  When I took my drivers test it didn't say I couldn't load a U-haul truck full of explosives and destroy a building.

 

You can't even make a copy of a CD to give to a friend without breaking the law.  What makes anyone think you can use those same songs to promote your work to make money?  It might seem stupid at first, but what if one guy purchased 100 CDs and made a copy for his 100 closest friends?  That's a lot of CDs with no money going to the artist.

 

Another example for you: ever heard of MUZAK?!  Yeah, you know... elevator music.  Well places of business can not play a radio station where customers can hear it.  A friend who works in retail has told me how they are often checked to be sure they purchased their muzak license.  If some hippie is working in a coffee shop and playing his Greatful Dead a little too loud, the store can be slapped with a lawsuit.

 

And thank you Fred for being honest.

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[Guest headbox]

i know its a bad argument.. i was trying to poke fun at the fact that you are taking this shit way to seriously man.. calm down before your ulcer bursts..

 

ps.. can we see your demo reel?

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I think I get particularly heated when it comes to music because most people treat music like it's background noise meant to be distributed freely, while I think good music writing is possibly the greatest skill a person can be born with. Making a quality music CD takes just as much work as writing software or producing a film, but for some reason people view it differently when it comes to piracy. Considering how many college dorms have been raided in the last year, I don't think anyone should take it lightly anymore. I heard of a high school band that had to give up contest prize winnings and trophies because they used music without permission. At the same time, a friend of mine teaches a percussion section that is performing music by Rage Against the Machine- they wrote their manager and asked and he said "sure, go ahead, and we'll even come out and see you play it." So people might be surprised at the results they get when all they do is ask instead of steal.

 

And my reel sucks so I don't feel like posting it until 2008 when I update it with all of my awesome work I haven't done yet