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Aaron Scott

Adobe programs going Creative Cloud-only -- new AE is "AE CC"

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As far as promoting it more: I just published that a few hours ago, and we just announced the feature this morning.

 

Regarding wanting more stuff to be synchronized: That's why there's a feature-request link in my post. We asked several hundred After Effects users what they wanted to have synchronized, and then we started working our way down the list in order. We'll get to more stuff later... and since we are in this new world of being able to release features whenever they're ready, later isn't likely to be that long from now.

 

 

 

As far as promoting it more: I just published that a few hours ago, and we just announced the feature this morning.

 

Regarding wanting more stuff to be synchronized: That's why there's a feature-request link in my post. We asked several hundred After Effects users what they wanted to have synchronized, and then we started working our way down the list in order. We'll get to more stuff later... and since we are in this new world of being able to release features whenever they're ready, later isn't likely to be that long from now.

Personally I think that is the best thing about the CC membership. Been an AE user since 5.5 and the rate and quality, while maintaining stability is sky rocketing. What is the link to the user request page as there are a few things I would love to see in the suite. Will put them here roughly

 

Media Encoder: Have a way to select multiple files and change their output folders.

AE: ahh... so many but some of the best might be a way to collect expressions in a project into one adjustment layer. There is a script for this but would be awesome if you did not need it.

 

Most importantly... even more than folders or drop downs inside of the timeline would be a way to have multiple users working on comps at the same time with minimal management on the end user that "finishes" the project. I just saw this on AE scripts tonight and testing tomorrow, but the "awareness" feature of updates to comps, possibly within in a folder would be amazing for larger projects. http://aescripts.com/bao-dynamic-comp/

 

Finally, the cineware looks awesome, but without testing have no idea. On the topic of this.. rendering is always an issue and as a studio we create may versions of spots, elements and projects for delivery. Not sure if this has ever been brought up, but would love a feature similar to C4D multipass, where we would be able to export multiple Matte Layers, via some form of exporting effect/tag. I can even count how many times we need to export clean renders with mattes and then re-export for mattes within the same overall composition. If this could be accomplished by some trickery in the output module (example being export Alpha for Comp 21 in Main Comp) that would save sooooo much additional render time

 

 

Thanks for all the answers, listening and help

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Media Encoder: Have a way to select multiple files and change their output folders.

Most importantly... even more than folders or drop downs inside of the timeline would be a way to have multiple users working on comps at the same time with minimal management on the end user that "finishes" the project.

 

That Adobe Media Encoder request is already satisfied in the new version, the one that comes with After Effects CC. I used to be the Adobe Media Encoder product manager, so I'll take some credit for that one. ;-)

 

Regarding the desire to have multiple people collaborating on the same project: Have you seen our Adobe Anywhere demonstrations? It's working in Premiere Pro now, soon to be released; After Effects is coming next.

http://www.adobe.com/products/adobeanywhere.html

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We are still selling CS6 software, and we will be for a long time for people who prefer the perpetual license model. We will still release bug fixes for CS6, too; we are working on a bug-fix update for After Effects CS6 now.

 

So, no need to hoard boxes of CS6.

 

 

DONT BELIEVE THEM! BUY THEM UP WHILE YOU CAN!!!

 

Its all lies i tell you! It'll be like the new gold standard. or the new crack cocaine, where studios will be desprately clamering to find someone who has an offline version of AE.

 

The AEPOCALYPSE IS COMING!

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Another interesting thing they said was once you upgrade the version, there's no going back.

Which is not huge, but sometimes its nice to have that back pocket version when everything goes pear shaped in the new one.

 

 

 

Which is exactly the opposite of what I was told when I opted for the cloud, a decision I am regretting even as we speak. I was also told I could keep my cloud apps and they would work if I decided not to carry on or take a break for a year. This is a lie, and is tantamount to criminal miss-selling. In fact, were this a financial product I'm sure there would be some sort of enquiry. However, it might be that the sales staff were just not aware or didn't understand the T & C's and didn't knowingly miss-sell the package. Be sure that when we're all on the prices will be hiked.

 

The server is NOT robust in the slightest as I'm often asked to re-connect to confirm the license even if I already am online. Also, forget the 30 days grace period - that simply does NOT work (at least for me). End of.

 

Just to be balanced, I appreciate Todd's contributions here and I'm glad to have the full Creative Suite, but by all that is holy someone needs to create a new mograph app as this lack of competition is not good for the end users.

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That is false.

 

If you subscribe using Creative Cloud, you can choose which version(s) to download and install. We have committed to having at least five versions available for download, beginning with CS6.

 

This is good to know, but someone should call Mumbai and school 'em, cause they were pretty insistent about this.

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This is good to know, but someone should call Mumbai and school 'em, cause they were pretty insistent about this.

 

If you can give me a case number for that interaction, I'll do the correction myself.

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we can use this on as many computers we want as long as only one version of said software is running, correct?

 

The software can be activated on two computers at once. Deactivating on a computer so that you can activate on another is a relatively simple process.

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Which is exactly the opposite of what I was told when I opted for the cloud, a decision I am regretting even as we speak. I was also told I could keep my cloud apps and they would work if I decided not to carry on or take a break for a year. This is a lie, and is tantamount to criminal miss-selling. In fact, were this a financial product I'm sure there would be some sort of enquiry. However, it might be that the sales staff were just not aware or didn't understand the T & C's and didn't knowingly miss-sell the package. Be sure that when we're all on the prices will be hiked.

 

The server is NOT robust in the slightest as I'm often asked to re-connect to confirm the license even if I already am online. Also, forget the 30 days grace period - that simply does NOT work (at least for me). End of.

 

Just to be balanced, I appreciate Todd's contributions here and I'm glad to have the full Creative Suite, but by all that is holy someone needs to create a new mograph app as this lack of competition is not good for the end users.

 

I have been on CC for awhile now and I have not had to re-connect once, at least not that I have seen.

 

I understand people having issues with this new paradigm - change is hard. However, change *will* happen. It's better to adjust, look at the positive benefits to it, and move on. I am having a good experience with the CC. It's pretty much invisible to me.

 

-gl

Edited by _gl

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I have been on CC for awhile now and I have not had to re-connect once, at least not that I have seen.

 

I understand people having issues with this new paradigm - change is hard. However, change *will* happen. It's better to adjust, look at the positive benefits to it, and move on. I am having a good experience with the CC. It's pretty much invisible to me.

 

-gl

 

-gl

 

I'm glad it does work for you, but I have zero confidence in the implementation of this distribution model due to my own exeperiences with it, including half a day over a weekend trying to sort out payment details when (my error) an expired card was rejected and my 30 day grace period went instantly to one day then locked me out, all in the space of minutes. Mumbai sorted that out for me to their credit and I was working later that Saturday evening.

 

As for change, I hear you but my gripe is with the whole culture of Adobe and it's business model in recent years. I've been doing this for twenty-six fuppin' years since leaving education and have seen the sort of changes that mean the trade I was taught in college has altered in so many ways I wouldn't know where to begin; suffice to say the computers we used were BBC Micros and one Apple II (it could rotate a wireframe torus!). Change is a big part of this job, and is one of the reasons I love working in graphics and embrace progress, but that doesn't mean I'm going to evangelise a crap idea (I have been extolling the boundless virtues of Adobe's software for the nearly two decades I was on staff) or more importantly an idea which means I relinquish some of the control I currently over my own working environment to to a multinational that doesn't give two flying shades of shite for customer loyalty or the effect it has on the end user. This will not be good for sole traders and freelancers in the long run; the slightly larger businesses they compete against will gain an advantage.

 

I might be whinging old scrote that rants, raves, spits and is becoming ever more irrelevant to you kids but I'm still here and working. So no offence, but I really do understand change.

 

zook is 46 and 3/4 years old*

 

 

 

 

*That's 327 1/4 in dog years.

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Hey Todd,

 

I'm pretty reluctant to move from traditional licensing to Creative Cloud, I was wondering if you could address my biggest reservations:

 

-The pricing seems unfair to those who have already purchased and maintained Creative Suite licenses. Currently, it costs me about $350 a version to upgrade my copy of Production Studio. Assuming the feature releases would be equivalent to about on upgrade per year, under creative cloud, I'll be paying about $600 instead of that $350 to maintain my software. This also assumes I would have otherwise never skipped a version. Adobe's answer to this seems to be the first year discounted rate of $30/month, but assuming this is going to be a long term solution, a savings of roughly $240 for one year is really underwhelming.

 

-There is no permanence to the licenses, if I disapprove of the way CC is being handled and stop paying, I lose my access to the software. This is a significant disadvantage over owning a license. Are you guys hearing this as a common concern, and do you have an answer for it?

 

-What's to guarantee that Adobe won't significantly raise the price of subscription once everyone's signed up, or that development won't stagnate? I've seen this happen with Maya under Autodesk's care, once they went to a subscription model, development on Maya seemed to slow down to a crawl with only 2 or 3 new features per version, and often poorly implemented ones at that.

 

I'm also hearing a rumor at work that Adobe will continue to sell licenses, but only as download, no boxed versions. My understanding is that you are doing away with the concept of license ownership entirely. Which of these scenarios is accurate? If you are still going to sell licenses, how would that work in a system with no version numbers?

 

Thanks in advance for any clarification you can give me.

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If you can give me a case number for that interaction, I'll do the correction myself.

It was one of the quick in and out chats I had on the site pop-up.

I spent many days agonizing over my next move heh.

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-There is no permanence to the licenses, if I disapprove of the way CC is being handled and stop paying, I lose my access to the software. This is a significant disadvantage over owning a license. Are you guys hearing this as a common concern, and do you have an answer for it?

 

Yeah, this is the big one for me. I feel the same way about Microsoft's new Office licensing. I'd like the software, but I don't think I should lose access to it unless I commit to a monthly fee for the rest of my life. I understand why this is a good move for Adobe, but it's an extremely bad move for consumers.

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Hey Todd,

 

I'm pretty reluctant to move from traditional licensing to Creative Cloud, I was wondering if you could address my biggest reservations:

 

-The pricing seems unfair to those who have already purchased and maintained Creative Suite licenses. Currently, it costs me about $350 a version to upgrade my copy of Production Studio. Assuming the feature releases would be equivalent to about on upgrade per year, under creative cloud, I'll be paying about $600 instead of that $350 to maintain my software. This also assumes I would have otherwise never skipped a version. Adobe's answer to this seems to be the first year discounted rate of $30/month, but assuming this is going to be a long term solution, a savings of roughly $240 for one year is really underwhelming.

 

-There is no permanence to the licenses, if I disapprove of the way CC is being handled and stop paying, I lose my access to the software. This is a significant disadvantage over owning a license. Are you guys hearing this as a common concern, and do you have an answer for it?

 

-What's to guarantee that Adobe won't significantly raise the price of subscription once everyone's signed up, or that development won't stagnate? I've seen this happen with Maya under Autodesk's care, once they went to a subscription model, development on Maya seemed to slow down to a crawl with only 2 or 3 new features per version, and often poorly implemented ones at that.

 

I'm also hearing a rumor at work that Adobe will continue to sell licenses, but only as download, no boxed versions. My understanding is that you are doing away with the concept of license ownership entirely. Which of these scenarios is accurate? If you are still going to sell licenses, how would that work in a system with no version numbers?

 

Thanks in advance for any clarification you can give me.

 

Jporter brings up a lot of points that I'd love to hear answers to.

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Same here. I'm on cs5 personally and we are cs6 at work. I can't see myself being limited by cs5 for the things I need to create for a long while.

 

This rental thing just makes me uneasy. There's clearly plenty of pros along with the cons.

 

For those with a maxon MSA... If you stop paying that, do you lose C4D? I don't know the terms of that but the impression I had of it was that you pay an annual amount and get all the updates etc, and just stop when you want to get off for a while, retaining your license? This seems like a 'thank you' to loyal customers rather than a 'do what we want' by a monopoly. Again, I may be wrong and I know it's different scenarios but broken down it equates to someone paying hundreds of moneys per year, in one instance you get to keep the car, and the other you need to clean out all your crap from the back seat and give it back...

 

I'm not totally against this, a lot of the questions I had are mainly hypothetical but there's obviously some legitimate questions

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For those with a maxon MSA... If you stop paying that, do you lose C4D?

 

No, you don't, same thing with Autodesk's subscription program. You pay a yearly fee which entitles you to upgrades at no extra charge, but you then own those licenses outright, you own them no matter what you do, that's the major difference here. CC seems to be more of a long term rental. And as we all know, renting long term is always a great deal.

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This rent only thing is exactly what concerns me. When you don't have the money to keep going *poof* everything is gone. I mean, I understand that there is an upside that people who wouldn't have been able to pay for the software at all could get some access to it, and that is nice, but I feel like if you've paid enough to pay for the whole thing, you should get the whole thing forever.

 

But don't worry folks, if we don't like it we can always vote with our dollar and use the competitors' products, right? :) ...Right?

Edited by jayfaker

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I'm also hearing a rumor at work that Adobe will continue to sell licenses, but only as download, no boxed versions. My understanding is that you are doing away with the concept of license ownership entirely. Which of these scenarios is accurate? If you are still going to sell licenses, how would that work in a system with no version numbers?

 

We are still selling perpetual licenses for CS6 software. Versions after CS6 will only be available using a subscription license.

What do you mean by "no version numbers"? After Effects CC is version 12.0, just like After Effects CS6 is version 11.0. We will still have version numbers.

 

 

-What's to guarantee that Adobe won't significantly raise the price of subscription once everyone's signed up, or that development won't stagnate? I've seen this happen with Maya under Autodesk's care, once they went to a subscription model, development on Maya seemed to slow down to a crawl with only 2 or 3 new features per version, and often poorly implemented ones at that.

 

If we did either of those things, you'd stop paying us. In fact, the subscription model binds us more tightly to satisfying you, since we need to please you on an ongoing basis so that you keep paying us. Contrast this to the perpetual license, where we already have your money, so we have less incentive for us to do things like fix the bugs that you encounter. As someone who (obviously) likes to engage with our users, the subscription model makes me happy for that reason.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-There is no permanence to the licenses, if I disapprove of the way CC is being handled and stop paying, I lose my access to the software. This is a significant disadvantage over owning a license. Are you guys hearing this as a common concern, and do you have an answer for it?

 

I have seen this mentioned as a concern. Yes, it is true, just like I lose access to the house that I rent if I stop paying the rent. But if you stopped paying after, say, six months of using the software, then you would have paid less for that span than if you had paid the full price of a perpetual license. If you need the software again, say a year later, then you can just pay for that month. It's more flexibility.
But, again, you don't have to go this route. You can choose to buy CS6 software and get a perpetual license. We'll still be selling that. And we're working on a bug-fix update for it now, so it's still supported.

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If we did either of those things, you'd stop paying us. In fact, the subscription model binds us more tightly to satisfying you, since we need to please you on an ongoing basis so that you keep paying us. Contrast this to the perpetual license, where we already have your money, so we have less incentive for us to do things like fix the bugs that you encounter. As someone who (obviously) likes to engage with our users, the subscription model makes me happy for that reason.

 

This would be true except that you have a monopoly on some very important products. I'm not saying you are going to stagnate or abuse your position to jack up prices. But at this point, like I said, we can only hope you stay benevolent.

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If we did either of those things, you'd stop paying us. In fact, the subscription model binds us more tightly to satisfying you, since we need to please you on an ongoing basis so that you keep paying us. Contrast this to the perpetual license, where we already have your money, so we have less incentive for us to do things like fix the bugs that you encounter. As someone who (obviously) likes to engage with our users, the subscription model makes me happy for that reason.

I disagree. The subscription model binds us to Adobe, not the other way around. Adobe could run everything into the ground and completely ignore the users and we'd still be stuck paying. If we stop, Adobe takes every single product away from us--products that we may have put thousands of dollars towards.

 

I just don't want to spend thousands of dollars on software that will all get taken away the moment I don't have the ability to funnel a monthly fee to Adobe. I also might not want to pay a monthly fee to Adobe for the rest of my life. Maybe I'll move on to something else; but unless I pay a monthly fee forever, I'll lose the ability to even open my old projects.

 

I won't be upgrading to CC. I can't justify it. I don't have the money to pay a fee every single month, and when I do, I want that to be an investment in software that I own and won't get taken away from me.

 

What do I gain by spending the same money on software that I was spending before, but now after I've spent the money the product will get taken away? It makes sense for Adobe. It sucks for consumers.

 

The only thing that would save this is if Adobe announced some sort of subscription exit strategy that included perpetual licenses.

 

Yes, it is true, just like I lose access to the house that I rent if I stop paying the rent.

But eventually, you own the house :P

Edited by Aaron Scott

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The perpetual license thing is fine to keep mentioning.

 

BUT IT'S FOR 6

 

We all know even Adobe addresses advancements 'sometimes', and 6 is already looking at the door while 7 is gellin its hair ready for a night out.

 

People with perm lics will be stuck in the stone age, and so be it, but let's not dance around it.

 

 

Oh, and maybe we can get a perm lic for COSA while we're at it

 

: )

Edited by microdot

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Signed and sent.

I'm hoping that many people who would have gone for CS7 in a heartbeat choose to sit back on CS6 licenses instead, at least until this decision gets reversed. We don't need the latest and greatest to do good work, and now is a good time for people to remind Adobe of that fact with their wallets.

 

Petitions are great, but I think boycotts speak more in a language that Adobe's top dogs can understand.

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This is what happened with Autodesk people started to go on subscription, no problem AD gets his money but they "forgot" to give a decent update to softimage.

Oh wait Adobe is doing the same for a long time now. At least they should stop updating photoshop it's getting messier and messier. People would pay for that. Seriously.

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If you can give me a case number for that interaction, I'll do the correction myself.

 

Oh, well now! Can you fix my issue yourself, then? Case numbers

 

0209558750

0209559535

 

Not the first time mentioning this here... I have been getting double-charged ever since the creative cloud came about. I used to have the cs5.5 subscription, which apparently I am still being charged for. Its been over a year now.... Even the person you forwarded me over to never responded to my case. The guys in India keep hanging up on me, disconnecting chat, etc when they start to get confused. Adobe support is utterly useless.

 

But I guess since you are the man and can now do corrections yourself.... thanks in advance!

 

----------------------------------

 

Onward to the topic at hand...

 

First.. Todd, you and the product team are awesome. Any gripes I have are toward the mentality of the suits over there. I know you don't have any control over this type of thing, so please just stick to guiding us as you always have through these waters of new tyranny. I personally like feeling you are different from the truth-twisting sales staff, and hope that feeling remains through this transition.

 

As stated above I have been on a subscription model for some time now and have never had any licensing issues, even when offline although that is extremely rare. Updates scare me every time because I don't know of a way to roll back if need-be. Updates haven't been an issue thus far, but I'm sure it one day cause a fuss.

 

Even though I am happily on the subscription model, I cannot describe how much I dislike this move. I won't get into it though, because I know the only opinion that has a voice that can be heard by the people who scheme this stuff up is this one.

 

 

 

 

The question I have, though, is this: If a software package is EOLed, like fireworks just was, what's the game plan? And I mean... Guaranteed game plan... In black and white. Lets say, theoretically, the industry moves over to something else, thus making Adobe see no further need for AE and EOLing it after a few version updates since. Then, I need to pull an old project from 4 or 5 years prior to the latest update, but there is no way to download the software from to open the file.

 

 

Contrast this to the perpetual license, where we already have your money, so we have less incentive for us to do things like fix the bugs that you encounter.

 

Now.... that is just not nice.

 

If I purchase something that is broken, I expect it to be fixed. Correct me if I am wrong.. but in the world of software development at Adobe's scale, isn't the cost of ongoing bug fixes supposed to be a part figuring out the price??

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