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Hugo

What do you think of Cineware

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Hi, I begun using Cineware, and my first impressions is that is to slow to render inside of AE, I know I have a 2009 iMac, but is really slow in full resolution, so I had to came back rendering old style by making image sequences, does anybody else has problems like this? anyone with a faster computer?

 

Regards

Edited by Hugo

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Cineware = garbage. Scrap it, start over from scratch. Just another pointless 3D plug-in that AE doesn't need.

 

Mylenium

Edited by Mylenium

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I must correct myself in that Cineware is garbage the way it is now.... Perhaps by the time AE has a decent 3D space in CS8 or whenever it may actually be usable the way it's meant to be. For now it's just someone's wet dream made true.

 

Mylenium

Edited by Mylenium

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I have been struggling to find any way it could be practical in a real-world workflow with deadlines and shit. Right now, I feel its purely a marketing move that super-beneficial to both Adobe and Maxon. Its barely C4D... Just enough to force anyone who actually needs to use it for work to buy the real thing.

 

Its crazy slow. Cool concept... but.... you know, I was really hoping that r15 would bring some features that would help it make sense. Anything different for us Studio owners? No? Do we get to take advantage of the team render preview? Can we use the render farm?

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Just enough to force anyone who actually needs to use it for work to buy the real thing.

But that is the question, is it not? Does it actually generate sales for Maxon? In my experience people who get something for "free" with an update are the ones who never would have considered spending money on something like that. Or in other words: Anybody who ever had a genuine serious need for 3D in AE will already have Element 3D or another such plug-in plus a 3D program, be it just the free Blender. I doubt the whole move will generate mass numbers of new C4D users except perhaps for a few ones that really find C4D Lite too limiting. Most other users will just be happy with the limited extruded text and other features. From where I sit, Maxon will not at all benefit that much from this in real numbers, it raises just public awareness.

 

Mylenium

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But that is the question, is it not? Does it actually generate sales for Maxon? In my experience people who get something for "free" with an update are the ones who never would have considered spending money on something like that. Or in other words: Anybody who ever had a genuine serious need for 3D in AE will already have Element 3D or another such plug-in plus a 3D program, be it just the free Blender. I doubt the whole move will generate mass numbers of new C4D users except perhaps for a few ones that really find C4D Lite too limiting. Most other users will just be happy with the limited extruded text and other features. From where I sit, Maxon will not at all benefit that much from this in real numbers, it raises just public awareness.

 

Mylenium

Surely it makes any AE/CC user who wants 3D have C4D as their default choice now, which must be good for Maxon sales, in vaguely the same way there was an 'iPod/iPhone Halo' for other Apple products ?

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I tend to disagree. My 3D needs are clearly defined/ dictated by what work I need to do and I would expect other users to make equally informed decisions. I use modo because poly modelling in C4D sucks and in fact if not all our freelancers would use C4D I would very likely still be using Lightwave for the rest and be no less able to get my work done. Don't get me wrong - C4D is nice at what it does and somehow it was always there even when only one of my colleagues was using it, so it was easy to "go back", but it's not the be all end all of 3D.

 

That aside, when I'm in 3D mode, other things take priority before worrying about AE integration. Many times things are just terribly convoluted when you are dealing with 20 million or more poly CAD scenes. As I keep writing on my blog, sometimes it's just easier to hack things with a bit of manual keyframing.... And it's not that other programs haven't taken a clue or two and do provide AE integration as well, should I ever need it. It's no longer a C4D exclusive...

 

Putting on my compositing hat, I also think neither Maxon nor Adobe really captured what kind of 3D makes sense, given the current pipeline. It's ironic that Element 3D hits all the right beats that Cineware is missing, with the only serious limitation being its dependence on OpenGL. Or to spell it out: I doubt that many users actually ever requested a full 3D program. All they wanted is to create some extruded text, import stock models and similar. I'm reasonably sure you won't find many getting that deep into C4D Lite like they would into any other 3D program.

 

Ultimately that is the tragedy: Will C4D generate a new user base? Again, I believe it won't and in turn I don't think it will generate too many sales for Maxon. It really comes down to my previous argument: You as an existing C4D user might happily have sprung 99 bucks or more if this was sold separately, but users who have no experience with 3D or whose needs could be better covered with other plug-ins may not. I'm not at liberty to divulge details, but from what I have heard from developers who had licensed their plug-ins to be bundled with AE in teh past, the promotional effect is not that great and this may not be much different, after all...

 

Mylenium

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Mylenium you are the exception, not the rule. Making informed decisions is not the rule.

 

Motion designers have a vastly different background compared to "other people using 3D software". As i said in another thread, this has impact on the way you work in both creative as well as technical aspects. What even adds to the differing styles of work is how long you've been at this. And when it comes to motion, we are just getting started as a market with most people doing motion for only a short period. So the userbase will for a large part be based on what is now becoming "the standard way of doing things".

 

Just because we have been doing things certain ways on the right side of the bell curve doesn't mean it will stay that way.

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The first iteration was largely aimed at introducing 3D (and Cinema 4D) to folks who weren't yet using it with After Effects.

 

We recognize that the existing first iteration of this feature set doesn't replace the old workflows for a lot of people who were already using Cinema 4D with After Effects... but even for them (you), there are some benefits regarding not needing to render and rerender and rerender difficult-to-manage images sequences just to do iterative design work.

 

Development of this integration is an incremental process.

 

The best thing that you can do is to let us know here what you want next and what isn't working for you.

Edited by Todd Kopriva

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there are some benefits regarding not needing to render and rerender and rerender difficult-to-manage images sequences

 

...though in that same sentence you point to flaws C4D's and AE's asset management. I would imagine that it would be a ton easier if both programs offered better tools - regardless where a sequence was created. Don't I remember much screaming about that "fix" with that annoying sequence checking thing... ;-) *duckingforcover*

 

Mylenium

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Making informed decisions is not the rule.

 

Obviously... like people buying a Mac and then getting all worked up on the Adobe forum about not being able to use their old PC-based programs... ;-)

 

Mylenium

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Motion designers have a vastly different background compared to "other people using 3D software".

I don't think that is in any way true, because, you know, I actually don't know what "motion designers" are by definition. That field in itself is so broad and covers anything from vastly technical stuff to playful experimental exploration and people doing it range from students fresh off school to people who had other careers before and it influences their kind of style and what work they do and what programs they may/ should use....

 

Mylenium

Edited by Mylenium

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I have not been able to fully experiment with this as much as I would like. As a normal C4D user, it does not in itself present me with anything amazing, but it does not let me pull fast object buffers for matte tests and get nulls and 3D data a bit faster and more flexibly. Outside of that, I dont really ever see using it in production.

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Morph cameras aren't able to be extracted into AE. Burn. Adding the C4D importer plugin to your AE folder causes an annoying error when opening the app. Yar.

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