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superegophobia

Adobe CC, thumbs up or down?

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You're right. We should just all bend over and offer our arses to the man, because he's in the saddle now and he's got your cojones in his mitts.

 

Or we could act like professionals who know our business inside out and make it clear that the way your man there has chosen might not be the best for us. Because we matter, you see.

 

THEN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Its so easy for you to just slap down my comment because its the more noble notion to say "this is not right and we shouldn't accept it!", but I haven't seen or heard a god damn one of you actually attempt to do ANYTHING about it. Go riot in the streets, go paint signs and stomp around Adobe's headquarters, make your own competitor app to AE. I don't know. Maybe charge more to offset the cost of your CC license? If you can't recoup the cost of your license in one job, let alone a day or two, maybe you should reassess what you're worth, because as you say, you matter. There are a lot of options, but I hear none of you thinking about it any further than "they're fucking me in the ass! How dare they!"

 

I'm actually acting like a professional as you say, because I'm working within my limitations, both software, creatively, and financially. Big businesses are going to do what they want to do, to squeeze more money out of their products, because that is the nature of capitalism. Nothing stays the same forever, so you need to figure out how to jump OVER the hurdle that pops up in front of you, instead of tripping over it and then bitching about it because you didn't see it.

 

 

 

I look forward to your next whimsical poem about how things are not fair and that you shouldn't have to accept the changes that inconvenience your life.

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I look forward to your next whimsical poem about how things are not fair and that you shouldn't have to accept the changes that inconvenience your life.

 

That was prose, not a poem. This is a poem:

 

A chap says "I'm going to give you all flack,

Cos you hate Adobe but I'm all right Jack!"
But if you can't pay
They'll take your living away
And they just might not give you it back.

 

I'll take that petulant demonstration of toys out of the pram for what it is; an outburst borne of a lack of longevity and experience in an industry that has changed more that you can ever understand in the over quarter of a century since I started out in it. I actually like the fact it moves on, technologies develop and new, exciting techniques constantly appear. I engage with software suppliers as much as I can. I don't need lessons in running my business, but thanks anyway.

 

This is a nuanced debate to be sure, but I still believe its importance is being underplayed. The core of the matter is at heart a philosophical and economic question: how much control over how you make your living are you willing to surrender to a disinterested third party? If you knew anything about social history at all, you might understand why Adobe's move to renting software is ringing alarm bells within the industry and with many individuals. Adobe's move betrays a certain mindset within the company about how it views itself; not as a supplier of goods to customers but a controller of customers, a direct influence on their businesses and the economic success of every one of us who use their software; of the wellbeing of our families. Relying on a monopoly, especially one that controls your method of production is appallingly bad business practice; as we have seen they are all too vulnerable to errors and lack of attention to detail.

 

They are abusing their position as a monopoly within the graphics sector and this move constrains our choices as we have no choices; Adobe have brought up every competitor and there is no competition. That's not capitalism (which relies on healthy competition to give the consumer choice and buying power), that's something else altogether and I don't know if there's even a name for it. We now do not control the means of production we rely on for our living. Seriously, think hard about that. If you need to have the implications of this pointed out to you, then go and read some books about the struggles of workers in the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries.

 

In the end, I suspect apathy and short term self-interest will win out and we'll end up being shafted by Adobe frequently in coming years, until a competitor arrives. This will happen eventually, unless the new economic model we're facing dictates otherwise; Adobe feels it can change this fundamental relationship between customer and supplier into monopoly and flunkey.

 

We deserve better.

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Adobe's move betrays a certain mindset within the company about how it views itself; not as a supplier of goods to customers but a controller of customers,

But then again, don't they all? Whoever came up with that cloud thing in the first place showed pretty much any company on that planet a wonderful and relatively easy way to get their customers by the balls and squeeze money from them. Adobe does it. HP does it. Apple does it. SAP does it. Amazon does it. Google does it. Everyone does it. Specific to Adobe the tragedy is that they have all the money and no brains... Well, whatever. Things are just as they are.

 

Mylenium

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My inner libertarian totally agrees with Zook (and I was strangely moved by your prose). In the same way I don't like google and spying on me and the whole net neutrality thing. Removing choice from any equation is always bad. Currently it's all benign, but thats not to say that a new CEO could take over and decided that all our asses are ripe for a pounding.

 

But my inner business man thinks that CC has some really nice features, the money makes sense ($50 x 24 months = less than purchasing previous software every 2 years), and I get updates as soon as they are available instead of waiting for a new release. I've also not experienced any of the nightmare issues with CC that some here have had.

 

Then again isn't that the rub? Like a parking ticket they set the price just low enough that you'd accept it begrudgingly, but not be mad enough to fight it. Unless this pisses someone off enough to make a new program. If we could raise that much money for Harry Frank a few months back, what would a kickstarted campaign for an AE alternate look like?

Edited by ianfreeze

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At this point in time, my view is that the best action one can take to 'do something' is to use CS6. There are no real alternative software packages to AE or AI. Pixelmator is having a good stab at PS and long may that continue.

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what would a kickstarted campaign for an AE alternate look like?

Not really the point. You need at least 3 years to develop such a complex program from scratch, so even if you started today you'd have to wait quite a while. And of course you'd have to have a suitable team of programmers in the first place. Well, at least with Nuke Studio there is a streak of hope on the horizon...

 

Mylenium

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There are no real alternative software packages to AE or AI.

Seriously? Xara, CorelDraw... I even use Inkscape from time to time and that one is free. Also depending on what is required several 2D-CAD programs come to mind...

 

Mylenium

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Not really the point. You need at least 3 years to develop such a complex program from scratch, so even if you started today you'd have to wait quite a while. And of course you'd have to have a suitable team of programmers in the first place. Well, at least with Nuke Studio there is a streak of hope on the horizon...

 

Mylenium

 

I never said it would be fast or easy, just interesting.

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Yeah, fair enough, but well, I don't think that this will be going anywhere. Too many have tried and failed. It takes some serious muscle to create a compositing/ motion graphics app and you have to have your priorities straight. Motion and FXHome illustrate that nicely - the technical basis is all there, but the companies making the products "just don't get it". There's always something missing...

 

Mylenium

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Call me a pretentious twat, but I believe there's a strong case for discussing some of the more esoteric and economic issues affecting us as artists, and this discussion is a vital part "doing something". We talk because we care, because we have learnt a craft and it is important we engage on all levels.

 

In some ways the real innovators of graphics programs have always been the smaller companies. A fair wodge of Photoshop was 'inspired' by the work of Kai Krause and Metatools in the 1990's who were real innovators, also used to host really interesting and lengthy philosophical discussions on their Blue Sky threads on usenet that allowed them to engage with their end users in a fashion not seen since. This was a celebration of art and programming, a genuine exploration of the boundaries of technology and it's applications within our industry at a time of massive upheaval as we transitioned into the digital workflow we now take for granted.

 


A Maxon app would be interesting, but I like to think that in a studio somewhere a team or single programmer is working on an open-source app that will blow AE out of the water and allows all to make a valid contribution for the common good, with ideas and money. It could happen.

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i think maxon should make a compositing/editing app...

Let's hope not... Long before that Maxon better polish up C4D and fix all the issues there.

 

Mylenium

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Seriously? Xara, CorelDraw... I even use Inkscape from time to time and that one is free. Also depending on what is required several 2D-CAD programs come to mind...

 

Mylenium

I should have mentioned that I was talking about native Mac apps

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I find it annoying that the new version of CC installs another version of all the Adobe apps on your computer called CC (2014). I thought one of the selling points was that incremental updates would just be added to the existing version. I smell compatibility problems.

Edited by hyp

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Like it or not, I believe the subscription model is here to stay. Adobe has no reason to sell boxed software like they used to. The amount of money they rake in now is ridiculous.

 

2.3 million members!? Thats.... what, about $100 million per month in revenue? The stock is at an all time high right now, with no real competitor in sight. People must be partying fairly heartily over there, and I'm sure offering a non-subscription option is the very last thing on their minds.

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I smell compatibility problems.

 

yep. A familiar line from the updates page:

 

Use File > Save As > Save A Copy As CC (12) to save a project as a copy for the previous version. To open a project created in the latest version of After Effects in After Effects CS6, you have to save back from After Effects CC (12). See Save and backup projects for detailed information.

 

It won't be as bad as before since everyone has the ability to update their software

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I was at DMALA lastnight and everyone raised their hands when Todd asked "if people would like to halt new features in favor or performance. Hopefully this happens over the next year is the timeline." Adobe Anywhere sounds interesting. I also wonder how powerful the HTML 5 can be. I am not really a coder, but what kind of things can this do besides Kuler? Can you have a mySQL database inside an AE panel so you can see EDL type stuff or track versions of comps? Like a Perforce database? Could a producer render your comps from a web browser remotely to avoid having to go in to the office? Will the new scriptable Render queue stuff allow for more ??? I have no idea. I have some feature request ideas.

 

I would love to see a timeline for the next 3 years of AE dev.

 

I love CC, thumbs up to the payment model. I never bought any Adobe product before this. Why drop $3000 when you can drop $30 a month and get everything, tech support, typekit, behance prosite and basic cloud storage. I hope more people jump on CC and prey that drives the cost down. They are also able to release updates and features faster because they don't have to legally ship it with what is listed on the box. They explained it once at DMALA.

 

If you think Adobe is expensive go to Flame, Nuke or Fusion 7 for After Effects. I am sure they're other products for imaging, publishing & web. Try working on in-House tools that a company makes; like a game company or vfx house. You will fork over that CC fee real quick.

Edited by pixel_pimp

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Ugh, time to copy over plugins, scripts, preferences, yada yada. What a pain in the arse.

Beware, Red Giant plugins are not fully compatible yet. I've held off on upgrading until all my plugins are guaranteed to work. I feel your pain.

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