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destro

Cinema4D R17

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People seem pretty excited by the Take system but predictably (and rightfully) underwhelmed about the rest. I'll be passing on R17 for sure unless freelancers start losing their mind over how indispensible Takes is. Spline modelling improvements are nice I guess. Anyone here think Takes will greatly improvement the motion graphics workflow on the creative side?

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There could be some use for look dev and exploring different versions of a scene, but I'm not sure if it is that relevant, especially to freelancers and small facilities. Tight deadlines, client mood swings and continual changes will often only give you so much room to breathe and you may not want to make this even more complicated. And I'm sure deep in the bowels of C4D there is an unexpected limitation or bug that will thwart your ambitions exactly at that one time when you really want to use it...

 

Mylenium

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is this more like an advanced Layer manager?

 

although it has benefits, due to versioning and scene change, no luxury in setting up a scene trough layer manager, they wanna see it ready yesterday ;)

 

that and the fact that you cant rely on premade setups or templates, it`s never the case...although we like to think so

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It saves the different states of the scene and the objects, which layer manager doesn't, so no, it's an entirely different thing. The facts remain, though - if you don't have time (or the will) to structure your projects with current tools (layers, comp tags, visibility tags, stage object etc.), this won't change things and you're still stuck with the mess you made for yourself. It's not bad, but it will take time before people get used to it and will use its full potential - if they can.

 

Mylenium

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honestly the token naming system alone is worth the MSA price for me. ( assuming it works as advertised).

 

take tool for rendering 5 camera angles of same animation in one go is also super useful.

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Yeah the feeling I'm getting is if you have regular studio work coming in, Takes and Tokens makes the upgrade worthwhile in terms of covering the cost. But overall almost everyone feels like this is barely a .5 release features-wise. Hopefully they learn from Adobe's recent example and attitude with AE. Of course more remains to be done with the threading and whatnot (in AE (as I understand it)) but they're on the right track and listening for sure IMO. Same cannot be said for certain with MAXON, although a couple of their people are making their way through online media / paying attention more than they used to. So that's a start I guess.

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honestly the token naming system alone is worth the MSA price for me. ( assuming it works as advertised).

 

take tool for rendering 5 camera angles of same animation in one go is also super useful.

 

The token system is excellent and really does make a difference. (Finally you can name object buffers!)

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its not just object buffers, its just as you work, you can have save ticked, and it saves a new image at every incremental save. instead of having to save them manually. ( otherwise they overwrite).

 

but then again i still have to wait for the reflectance fix... or do materials in r15. in any case, now it is worth while for me to use r17 and set up initial materials in r15. r16 didn't really provide me anything that would save me much time..

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can anyone here compare the number of objects the viewport can handle compared to maya? is c4d still slower with lots of objs?

 

does it have anything like the viewport 2 thing maya has (good looking previews of scene without rendering)?

 

im guessing you still cant bake to texture with vray for c4d.

 

and how is retopology compared to maya?

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From a vfx point of view the new take and token systems are great. I usually have seperate scene files for beauty render, shadow passes, RGB mattes and any other extra pass that might be needed. Then if you have to change the animation its a nightmare trying to get all those changes into the other scenes. Sure theres Xrefs but i still don't trust them fully.

 

Still i would have swapped it all for updates to bodypaint, uv's and an edge constraint similar to 3Ds maxs. Maybe R18

Edited by rich

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My R17 email came so testing out the new takes system. A lot of times I'll assign a pure Red/Blue/Green shader to type and use the R1, C1 to get main/edge/cap mattes. I followed the Cineversity video but when I make an new ColorMatte Take using the material overrides it either duplicates the main beauty pass tag multiple times for each Red/Green/Blue texture or using Autotakes and dropping the color textures on the type it will assign the additional color matte texture tags to the main beauty take. Not a huge deal since I can disable the matte colors by typing in "x" in the selection field of the Texture tag, but was wondering if there was a way to get things cleaner so it doesn't assign multiple shaders on the beauty pass.

 

Or long story short make it so the main beauty Take only has the one beauty shader, and the ColorMatte Take only has the Red/Green/Blue shaders.

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can anyone here compare the number of objects the viewport can handle compared to maya? is c4d still slower with lots of objs?

 

does it have anything like the viewport 2 thing maya has (good looking previews of scene without rendering)?

 

im guessing you still cant bake to texture with vray for c4d.

 

and how is retopology compared to maya?

ufff...Not sure it's really fair or relevant to compare them, but as they are the same price, it becomes necessary.

 

NO, is the answer. Viewport 2.0 is not coming to C4D, maxon haven't intimated that they see anything worth addressing there, and what with both vRay and Octane having live render viewports, they're likely disclined to.

 

With regard to heavy scenes: cloner objects, xRefs, instances are pretty much fine but with dense polys - again, no viewport 2.0 means no vRAM means wireframe boxes and 1fps playback. I know Autodesk have absolutely smashed this with timeline caching in Maya 2016

 

Bake to texture in vray - okay, you can't compare vray in Maya with Cinema 4D vray. If you want to build amazing shader networks, you wouldn't touch Cinema.

 

How is retopo? Well, they made the Polygon Paint brush... no, to be fair, Maya and C4D are almost evenly matched for box modelling. Although little things like parametric knife loops and hitting G to repeat last command are missing, actually, Cinema is nicely alternative, even with the extra tools that Maya brought in in 2015. To that end I'm looking at Modo>>>

 

http://www.digitaltutors.com/tutorial/2190-MODO-for-CINEMA-4D-Artists

 

 

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Still i would have swapped it all for updates to bodypaint, uv's and an edge constraint similar to 3Ds maxs. Maybe R18

 

+1 on BP... They could just buy out 3D-Coat and implement their retopo/UV/Sculpt tools. As I keep saying, one thing that stops C4D being an innovatoris their stubborn refusal to address the 90s legacy components of BodyPaint, xpresso, Content Browser (and those fucking assets therein...) and may i suggest that they look to Autodesk for ideas about the viewport because fuck me it's 2015

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