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Guest belief

Rip Off Artists

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Guest govinda

Now we have a dude stealing from his own compatriot James Joyce. :lol::lol::lol:

 

(You're right though. But whatcha gonna do? I don't like closing threads and among the other mods we got Firemind busy as a mutha, Sao just starting a new job that has him doing 70hrs/week, 3rd Martini just married... And for my part I like to keep it a little rollicking because it's waaaay too easy for a design discussion board to go all sappy.)

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Guest scottgfx
If you don't want to be copied perhaps you shouldn't make things that are so easy to copy.

36450[/snapback]

This thread reeks of ego and overinflated self-importance.

36300[/snapback]

 

Wow, you are both pot and kettle.

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Guest parallax

If there is one thing that is certainly unique about this board, it is the fact that it's not totally swarmed with fanboys.

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Guest MBX

whiners.

 

nobody said belief totally sucks. so stop getting so bitchy.

 

as for my opinion, it was just my opinion (i never said it was somebody's elses). and this is a democratic forum, yes? then i don't have to lick asses eachtime i think different.

 

as for renascent, stupid comment of yours. only because we have a different opinion and don't kiss asses every time it doesn't mean we're assholes or like deers & paint-drips (actually hate it).

 

what's the point in a discussion if we have to agree all the time? or if only "positive" comments (compliments) are accepted?

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Guest igorschmigor

the thread title sounded so promising

"post work that has been stolen"

 

i'd love to see more examples of blatant ripping like this.

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Guest renascent

trust me mbx, i have to kiss no-ones ass on here.

 

im a strong believer in originality and innovation, the means to get there.

 

does reading 100 qoutes on copying and stealing, justify one doing so...?

 

for an industry thats supposed to be artistic and creative i really dont get it anymore, maybe my view on this industry is all wrong, you tell me.

 

*or actually this thread already shows that i am wrong... gonna fire myself, live on a mountain, paint, and copy nature ;)

Edited by renascent

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Guest MBX

i think monkey and me were just wondering why mike/ belief opens this thread as if he was complaining. looking at their work, there's maybe one good piece out of 10. watch the commercial section. 90% is crap (maybe a bit dramatized). couldn't keep up with two of psyop's/ logans/ stardusts/ pleix/ lobo clips/ spots (i could name more studios that are more innovative than belief). now i don't say belief's work is total bullshit, but rather classy (90ies) to me, not pushing boundries really in terms of originality. and i can understand if they get pissed off about some studio blatantly ripping off one of their designs for a little channel, but please don't sound as if you invented design and everything around it.

 

again this just my opinion. you don't have to take it so serious if you want...

Edited by MBX

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Guest igorschmigor

At what point did Belief pretend to have invented design?

 

I thought the initial post of this thread was fairly neutral.

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Guest MBX

i agree, it's interesting to see ripoff's and i admit that belief's zoom was really ripped off blatantly, no doubt. and i'm sorry for belief they got to be the victim.

Edited by MBX

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Guest the_Monkey
Wow, you are both pot and kettle.

 

I have no idea why you wish ill on me. There is no hypocrisy there.

Both those statements are true and relevant to all of us, not just Belief.

 

The problem with copy-threads for me is the setup of a sense of ownership. "THAT person/company stole MY idea!" What's wrong with that? Well, it leads us down the road of "who owns what"? And my criticism laid in the direction the thread was heading: into the idea of ownership.

 

How far is that gonna go? Well I think we saw.

 

I would prefer to approach it a different route. Instead of asking yourself why the *world* is so cruel and insistent on copying you... ask yourself what *you* can do to change it. I think we can all agree that copying is inevitable. If you don't like the way that feels and you want to change it, you can start by asking yourself, "Who's DIFFICULT to copy?"

 

(Bruce Lee, Jimi Hendrix, Richard Feynman...)

 

That was posed as a change of perspective. I don't believe it's the public's responsibility to not copy you, but *your* responsibility to keep from being copied. Now there are a few ways to do that... you could do it with forums, threats, or lawyers, etc. or could just keep doing your own thing and get so good that the falloff becomes to great for copy-cats to keep up.

 

I wished no personal insult to anyone here, and if anyone felt any... I apologize. My intent was not to add to the negativity, but remove it. Sometimes threads become incredibly one sided when led by studios rather than individuals because of fears of opportunity. I made these same arguments in the MK12 thread a while back. Alas, it is a public forum and if people would really like to create a tracking method of copies and such, I will be more than happy to let it exist in peace.

 

I personally do not mind being copied. I get paid well, to do what I love, with top-notch artists that I admire and respect. That's a lot to ask for and I'm thankful. Very thankful. It helps me not care one fucking inch whether someone is looking over my shoulder or not.

 

-m

Edited by the_Monkey

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Guest renascent

i think at the end of the day it boils down to where you draw the line between being inspired, copying or blatant ripping.

 

in a perfect world it would be a code to live by, were artist respect one another, inspire eachother, but dont blatant copy or steal.

 

but thats a perfect world

 

all man are equal, but thru making Art/design we get the oppertunity to show that we are not, we dont want to be equal in this business, we want to be different, we are egocentric, and im fine with it. surely im generalising here.

 

Then theres the $$$ factor, being ripped off means being ripped on intelectual copyright, but also being ripped in your wallet. When youre your own boss thats when it hurts seeing this shit happen to you...

 

Like in your case Monkey its fine..., you get your wage every month, but one day company XYZ copies all what you guys do and offers it for half the prize.

I dont think youll be in business much longer then, and i think you will start caring if your boss lets you go, cause he cant afford you anymore.

 

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ i rest my case $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

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Guest the_Monkey
Like in your case Monkey its fine..., you get your wage every month, but one day company XYZ copies all what you guys do and offers it for half the prize. I dont think youll be in business much longer then, and i think you will start caring if your boss lets you go, cause he cant afford you anymore.

36594[/snapback]

Just so you don't think that my philosophy has been acquired from some false sense of 9 to 5 security... I've been freelance for the last three years.

 

My wage/work is never guaranteed, it's based on how much I put in and how flexible I can be. People *have* been able to do things that I used to do at half the cost. I have also taken new work at twice the price. Everything moves around... I kinda like it like that.

 

There is always a chance that you may not survive tomorrow.

But that's what makes it interesting...

 

-m

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Guest fredcamino

the best way i've found to avoid being copied is to do completely derrivative work. original work is far too noticable and will always be copied.

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Guest Sao_Bento
the best way i've found to avoid being copied is to do completely derrivative work.  original work is far too noticable and will always be copied.

36619[/snapback]

Yep, aim for mediocrity and you'll never go wrong - that's my motto.

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Guest renascent
Yep, aim for mediocrity and you'll never go wrong - that's my motto.

36623[/snapback]

 

i hope you guys are kidding, but youre probably not............

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Guest fredcamino
i hope you guys are kidding, but youre probably not............

36643[/snapback]

 

i guess you'll never know...... *wink* *wink*

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Guest renascent
one look at my work should tell you i agree with fred

36647[/snapback]

 

in that case im sorry to find out Mike was right.

 

""""Is it just me, or do people seem to be looking at motion graphics more and more like a commodity and no longer the artform it is?

 

Its too bad.""""

 

which kinda leads my to the question, why bother sharing work or anything on this community site, if that the mentality on here....

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Guest MBX

depends on what you show/ share...

 

you can't call everything "artform". especially if you do shitty graphics for a crappy commercial or end-tag.

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Guest renascent

its like finding out santa claus doesnt exist....

 

how many of you do this for a living, just cause you have to make a living, if it wasnt this, it could just as easily be putting apples in boxes all day...

 

and how many got in this industry because youre passionate about making good design and expressing yourself thru this media?

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Guest silatix

i dont think theres a unanimous mentality on mograph at all.. but without disagreement there is no resolve. i think belief posting here is a great thing but no one is surprised that the post got fucked up. the best part of mograph is that we can all add our 2cents (no matter how assinine, usually.. ie: headbox)

i feel bad that mike got frustrated by the outcome of this thread but its also kind of cool that the thread can go any which direction unlike say an mgla meeting or a res fest where everything is fairly controlled with little controversy.

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Guest SermonOfMockery

renascent you have to understand you are about 9 million times more talented than most of us on here. we have to struggle with everything we've got to come up with crap. you obviously have a talent for doing original work that speaks to a lot of people. me, i try hard but i'm still just mediocre.

 

by the way i wasn't being sarcastic. when you are really good at something (as you obviously are), it can be hard to see things from the point of view of people (like me) that are just average at best.

Edited by SermonOfMockery

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Guest pauloblob

Guys, just relax, this is going to become a fight about who copies or not... Or even worse, what is the right way of copying...

I mean, this will end into a lifestyle discussion.

About the beliefs work, i don't think its fair jugde if are they or not an step ahead of the others. Theres no GODLIKE mographers in the world.

 

Ps.:( My english isn´t good and i dont know if you will understand what i mean...)

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Guest fredcamino
its like finding out santa claus doesnt exist....

 

how many of you do this for a living, just cause you have to make a living, if it wasnt this, it could just as easily be putting apples in boxes all day...

 

and how many got in this industry because youre passionate about making good design and expressing yourself thru this media?

36657[/snapback]

 

first off, i was joking a few posts up. secondly, i think we are all pretty passionate aoubt making good design and expressing ourselves through new media, although not all of us get the chance to do that to the extent that you do ren. you have a lot of talent. i do not. of course si'd rather be doing this than putting apples in boxes all day because it pays betters, i enjoy it more, and it doesn't hurt my back as much. but do i get the chance to express myself? no... not that i think that should be a requirement for a job. and i do try my best to make good design, but as you can see from a thread like >this one< a lot of us struggle and can't get our slow-witted clients to appreciate what we consider to be good design (which is of course questionable since perhaps i'm not talented enough to offer good design).

 

and as far as originality, innovation, and good design go. isn't what matters the most in the end is how effective the design is in communicating the idea? this is why i believe belief's work is just as good if not better than the "trendier" or more "innovative" studios. to me innovation and originality is not neccessarily good design, and an effectively communicated message for the particular case is... even if it falls back on commonly used symbols, ideas, etc.

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