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Guest christianchoice

For Thos of you Worried about not having a degree

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Guest christianchoice

I had the pleasure (?) of watching some of the student films for ULL's (university of lafayette at louisiana) senior project films. These people have been in college for at the least 4 years (most 5+) and have been learning the fine art of 3d modeling/animating. When i tell you these were pathetic....these were pathetic....i wish i could show you a few.... :).

 

one was decent

two were ok

and the rest were jokes..............

 

how can a person say that this is what they want to do for the rest of their life, when they produce crappy halfthought projects after being given over 9 months to complete a few minutes......

 

i dunno.

 

its not that they're terrible aritists....one girl has a great drawing style, but her 3d stuff....not so much.....she should have went for illustration.

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Guest atslopes

ahaha remember most students dont care or have the time to create masterpiece senior project films when there taking 4 or 5 other courses at the same time, most just want to graduate and get that degree so whatever (even it its terrible by your standards type of work) gets them by is ok by them.

 

 

BTW, you seem like an expert mind posting some of ur stuff.

Edited by atslopes

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Guest SermonOfMockery

yeah but university of lafayette isn't exactly an all-star school known for producing top film students. i don't think it's fair to suggest that because Bumfuck U has a shitty film program that school doesn't matter.

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Guest carniceria

I get so envious, I can't even look at a student.

 

Those miserable little brats, living purely hedonistic lifestyles - their loans on hold, their snug warm dorm room beds. Plentiful cafeteria food. And all the time in the world to develop their craft! Oh the injustice, oh and not to mention labfuls of expensive equipment...

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Guest fredcamino
I get so envious, I can't even look at a student.

 

Those miserable little brats, living purely hedonistic lifestyles - their loans on hold, their snug warm dorm room beds. Plentiful cafeteria food. And all the time in the world to develop their craft! Oh the injustice, oh and not to mention labfuls of expensive equipment...

53211[/snapback]

 

 

ahhh college. what joy. i highly recommend you take out a loan just to enjoy the hedonistic lifestyle for a while.

 

oh yeah, i like your signature.

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Guest christianchoice
yeah but university of lafayette isn't exactly an all-star school known for producing top film students. i don't think it's fair to suggest that because Bumfuck U has a shitty film program that school doesn't matter.

53210[/snapback]

 

 

its not that they all needed to produce Pixar quality pieces.....

 

its that they didn't put ENOUGH effort into their projects....

 

i'll try to get a copy of them if i can...

 

 

my coworker put a LOT of thought into his....is it an Oscar winner?? nopes, but one can tell that he put some effort/thought into it......

the others, not so much.......

 

i think my reasoning behind this is:

 

i think our industry is saturated with halfers who get through life by creating substandard work, but because they have a degree: instant freakin expert......

i guess i just keep forgetting that this type of stuff is what you make it: a job or a passion.....

 

maybe in a perfect world......

Edited by christianchoice

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Guest fredcamino
i think our industry is saturated with halfers who get through life by creating substandard work, but because they have a degree:  instant freakin expert......

i guess i just keep forgetting that this type of stuff is what you make it:  a job or a passion.....

 

maybe in a perfect world......

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no one, NO ONE, in the industry has ever asked if i had a degree in anything. you could be 18, fresh out of high school, if your demo reel shows you can do it, that's what matters. i know as many people working in mograph without degrees in graphic design/animation/whatever as i know unemployed film school grads. a lot.

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Guest SermonOfMockery

every "traditional" design shop i've interviewed at asked me where i went to school and when i told them nowhere it was clear things weren't looking good as far as me getting a job

 

not so much of an issue with motion graphics i think

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Guest christianchoice
no one, NO ONE, in the industry has ever asked if i had a degree in anything.  you could be 18, fresh out of high school, if your demo reel shows you can do it, that's what matters.  i know as many people working in mograph without degrees in graphic design/animation/whatever as i know unemployed film school grads.  a lot.

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you always know how to cut right to the core fred.....

 

maybe i should quit worrying about everyone else & focus on my own reel.....

 

eureika!!!!! (sp?)

 

:)

 

 

I :H you Fred. I :H you so FREAKING much!!!!!

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Guest fredcamino
maybe i should quit worrying about everyone else & focus on my own reel.....

 

eureika!!!!! (sp?)

 

:)

I :H you Fred.  I :H you so FREAKING much!!!!!

53236[/snapback]

 

im just speaking from my personal experience. maybe every place you interview at will ask for your degree. but i don't think they will. regardless,i definately wouldn't spend too much time worrying about whether you do or don't have a degree. i'd worry about whether you do or don't have what it takes. that's my daily worry.

 

EDIT: oh yea, let me give you the example of our friend on the board, VECTORSNOB. i'm quite sure he doesn't have a degree. i'm quite sure he's 19 or 20. and i'm quite sure he's one of the three people working at DIGITAL KITCHEN's new 3D department.

Edited by fredcamino

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Guest Tread

haha... agreed. I don't have a degree. Hell, I quit design school! Cuz I had too much work!

 

Not to say school isn't good. I got alot out of what I took. and I recommend it. But a little piece of paper with your name in blackletter with some fancy shiny seal thing won't get you crap except a pat on the back from dad, and maybe a few checks from relatives.

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Guest nextseason

I saw James Victore give a talk at my school once.

First off, he's the man, a great designer and really funny.

But the point is he said he dropped out of SVA and now teaches there. That is pretty much unheard of.

 

It totally just depends on the person.

http://www.jamesvictore.com

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Guest SermonOfMockery

is SVA an accredited school? i was under the impression that even adjuncts at accredited schools had to have a degree... i may be wrong though.

 

point is, there are exceptions to just about everything, but on the whole i think you'll find that good designers have a degree.

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Guest christianchoice

www.jonahtreestudios.com/THE TOY UNIVERSE.mov

 

its 30 mbs & is a QT7 (H.264)....the quality is ok, but its the best i could do seeing the whole project is 5 minutes long.... i think Bret's (this one) is probably the best (most thought out???) project to come out of his half of the class.....

 

since its so big i'm only going to leave it up for a few days (so not to waste bandwidth)

 

Fred: i hope you took my comments as they were meant: sarcasticlly :)

 

i too agree that in this biz, if you have it, you have it. a piece of paper really doesn't mean to much....

 

thanks for listening guys!!!

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Guest ESC

I’ll side with Sermon here on the school thing. It's a shame more and more people are deciding school is a waste of time. Sometimes, who can blame them? However, I think it ends up hurting this industry because young cats just want to work and will take shit pay just to get in the door or just pay the bills and like any other industry, there will be those ready to exploit. It hurts everyone when people are charging $1000 for a whole network package design. This is why more structured disciplines that require degrees tend to be higher paid and less taken advantage of. Not in all cases of course, but for the most part it's controlled.

 

I don't think school is for everyone and it does not make you a better person, artist or designer but like Sermon has mentioned in previous posts, it will open opportunities. You need a loan? You may find it hard trying to convince the loan officer without a degree. What's your growth potential? Let's face it, whether you like it or not, that piece of paper holds weight in many areas that may not be apparent.

 

Another thing you have to remember is that school opens your mind to other subjects and allows you to collect ideas which will translate into your work and mold your own style. You tend to meet people in school that have similar interest and this helps create synergy. Also, you might meet that one student or professor that changes your life, who knows anything can happen. I'm sure Brin and Page never expected Google to be a household name. Imagine if you were one of their best buddies. This is why I also don't think schools like Full Sail or the like are a good value because it's too focused on one thing. Obviously, some excellent people come out of there as it's proven by Chris Kelley and Nate Howe. What I refer to is getting specific degrees like Game Programmer in a year's time. When people come out of school thinking CSS and XHTML are programming languages, there is something wrong. My point being that subjects like writing, speech, business, etc are very important in any industry. Especially in such a young industry such as motion graphics, 3d, etc. Believe it or not, a good education is valuable in many ways.

 

If you're starting out, you need to ask yourself if this is what you might do for the rest of your life. Even if you think you will work in this field forever chances are that market forces and the environment could easily change the nature of this business. If you need to make a leap elsewhere to support a family or whatever, you may find it rather hard to do so without that piece of paper. Remember, right now it's the "cool job" to have and the entry point to this business is very easy. Just remember a bit of high school economics and you'll understand. Again, this is not to put anyone down that does not possess a degree because there are plenty of people in all walks of life that don't have one and have done well for themselves. If you're one of them, more power to you and keep going because you provide inspiration for those that don't have the opportunities to attend an institution of higher learning. These are the talented ones, the exceptions, but for the majority of us, it's different.

 

Obviously, I'm not the most educated person in the world and I wish I would have done things differently and had the opportunity to attend a place like MIT just to be around that pool of minds. Of course, I'm sure you will find some duds there too who don't know shit but are there on mommy and daddy's bankbook but the fact is that they ARE there making contacts and opening doors.

 

Well, enough of my blabber, it was just my thoughts on this whole school thing. Good luck with whatever you decide because in the end, only you can decide what is best for you. Sorry for the long post, hope I didn't bore you :unsure:

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Guest SermonOfMockery

yeah that's a really good point ESC... i was thinking about quitting school, but i talked to my cousin about it, who used to be a loan officer and he mentioned that same thing. if you're trying to start your own business, he says it's very very difficult to get funding without a degree (although it doesn't matter WHAT the degree is in for the most part). he also pointed out that, in general, where the lack of a degree holds you back is higher up the ladder, like getting toward upper management or executive positions. you might think you never want to go that route now, but you may change your mind in the future.

 

now if you're justin harder, vectorsnob, or mike young, fuck it... the opportunity cost of staying in school is very high. however very few of us are insane prodigies like those 3 and we need all the help we can get.

 

just something to think about...

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Guest pixelthief

In that case I'd pick some random state school in Hawaii and party for four or five years...

 

I agree that school is a waste of time in this line of work. Unless you're looking for a good time or want to avoid the real world for a spell.

 

he also pointed out that, in general, where the lack of a degree holds you back is higher up the ladder, like getting toward upper management or executive positions.

53304[/snapback]

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Guest JimmyB

I think its more the student then the school.

 

Not everyone will be great, it doesn't matter which school they go to. Creativity is not easy to teach someone. Thats why some people make it with no education and some people struggle with all the help in the world.

You gotta be in it cause its what you love, not cause it pays good.

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Guest javier G

i dont´know how the things works in usa

 

from where i am, there isn´t schools for mograph, just software relative training. But there are very good schools in graphic design and i believe that even if you´re a creative genius, you still need some strategic thinking, need to learn how to communicate and put those "natural" skills in the client and market service.

 

Besides the specific thing you do, school is also a good place to be around in a creative ambient and breath some general knowledge in other fields rather than design.

 

anyway, there are people with a degree that will suck all their lives no matter how much they study, and others without one still doing amazing work, its a matter of passion, talent and dedication.

Edited by javier G

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Guest C-FU

Please don't send those slackers to Hawaii. It just fucking makes things worse for cost of living and shortages in places to rent and own. If I here another bimbo blabbering about getting drunk every night while I am trying to sleep on the bus after a long night of work. I am going to...............well probably do nothing and try and hook up with her. Being one of the many local guys that she had sex with while she was on the island. SO she can have stories to tell to her friends when she goes back to suburban life living off her parents. No, keep sending them.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------

 

A old friend of mine quit design school but not entirely. He just skipped quite a few classes and went straight for portfolio class. Now he owns his own firm along side of his brother. Although I think he is at the point where he is standing on the shoulders of interns and problem solvers while taking the credit (he became more business than creative, after popularity and money entered the picture). I still respect him for what he has accomplished but I am sure he will try to disrespect me. Trying to hire me for a full mograph project for less than a grand. Telling me he will sport my name and put me in the spot light of his clients. Of course it doesn't do me any good when all their clients are strictly web or print.

 

But yeah he doesn't have a degree but he has his own successfull design firm. But skill and ability isn't enough all the time. You need to be able to communicate and form relationships. Basically learn to be a salesmen. My old boss lacked design knowledge but knew how to sell bullshit.

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I had the pleasure (?) of watching some of the student films for ULL's (university of lafayette at louisiana) senior project films. These people have been in college for at the least 4 years (most 5+) and have been learning the fine art of 3d modeling/animating. When i tell you these were pathetic....these were pathetic....i wish i could show you a few.... :).

 

one was decent

two were ok

and the rest were jokes..............

 

how can a person say that this is what they want to do for the rest of their life, when they produce crappy halfthought projects after being given over 9 months to complete a few minutes......

 

i dunno.

 

its not that they're terrible aritists....one girl has a great drawing style, but her 3d stuff....not so much.....she should have went for illustration.

 

i actually graduated from ull back in 2001 in media and i went back to see some of the senior stuff, too. a lot of it was absolute crap. i can't even stand to watch my own senior film because i've grown so much since then. nobody is perfect and everyone has to start somewhere, you know? many students spend a majority of their time learning technical aspects of many different programs and when they're not in the vrc at fletcher they're focusing on other classes (or in my case sitting in my dorm playing final fantasy and drinking). there are a very very small percentage of productions that come out of the visual arts program at ull that are worth a damn. and a very small percentage of students who graduate even get an opportunity to continue doing creative work afterwards...so don't be so harsh on them for having crappy work. they did their best.

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Just curious: How many of you that think school is a waste of time in this business actually completed a 4 year design program?

the key words here being "design program". I'm always jealous of the guys that actually took design at a reputable college. I think in this business media/film courses are almost always a waste, but a solid education in design seems priceless. I know I'd be much better off with one.

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