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Guest PrsROSE

reel finished - www.j-geissler.com

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Guest fredcamino

okay, i wasn't going to get involved, but this is just too much.

 

THERE IS ALWAYS ROOM FOR A PAGE PEEL.

 

and if you're a real frickin' artist, you'd use one.

 

enough said.

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Guest what?

all this talk of a page peel is making me horny!

a page peel with some trapcode shine on! oh, oh!

and a fractal noise background!!!!!!!!

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Guest pablokorona

why is it that those with the least amount of talent are also the ones who are more apt to complain and defend their work instead of listening to constructive criticism and adapting?

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Guest Scorch

First...

 

Thank you Scorch for you very informative reply - dun_d3viant

 

followed by...

 

What? and Scorch bashed me and Jeff - dun_d3viant

 

and...

 

Yea, frankly I don't enjoy being attacked by you...and Scorch - dun_d3viant

 

Shawn...this is a rather childish response given the amount of time I spent watching your reel, giving you an honest (and informed) opinion, which you actually thanked me for. I suggest you try and think about what you are saying in future. I'm not very likely to lie about what I think of a reel just to keep the person thinking that they're work is good enough in a commercial or artistic setting.

 

I didn't attack you. It may have appeared that I attacked your work, but I didn't, I reviewed it as I saw it, and from your reply at the time, this was appreciated.

 

 

You are basically telling me I am a failure, and will never make it. You are also telling me I never had talent. You are also telling me I am not an artist - dun d3viant

 

I haven't said or inferred any of these things at any point. I'm sure that you will be very successful in whatever field you choose to pursue.

 

I don't appreciate being called unprofessional, and I don't appreciate being lazily slagged off without consideration. I feel that you have only devalued your own opinion by being hypocritical. If you want to be taken seriously then it would probably help to be a little less inconsistent.

 

Thank you

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Guest Hubzy

This is hands down, the harshest thread on this site to date. Nobody specifically, just in general....But, so interesting.

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Guest SermonOfMockery

i just read this whole thread for the first time in a while... just thought i'd add another $.02:

 

But you are right, people like you and I are more Directors, Producer types... but to pay the bills we have to emulate all of these flashy trendy non sense.

 

just so you guys know you don't just walk into art director, producer or director jobs... you need to have a solid foundation of work before anyone is going to trust you with that level of control. i dunno, it just feels like you are making an excuse- what makes you think anyone is going to let you direct a spot based on that reel? in reality you need to work long and hard building your skills and portfolio before you get to that level, ESPECIALLY if you are fresh out of school.

 

also the "flashy, trendy types" are incredibly talented designers... when you get more experience you will see this. is the work coming out of Brand New School or Lobo trendy, flashy and superficial? absolutely, but it is extremely well-done trendy, flashy, and superficial work. remember many of these spots are only on the air for a week or two, maybe a season, before they're permanently retired... the work must be relevant to NOW, and if that means it looks dated in 20 years so be it.

 

so just so you know... you gotta pay your dues before you start calling the shots. you will find this out and it will probably be a bitter pill to swallow (as it was for me) but that's the way things work.

 

i suggest you follow my original advice if you plan on pursuing a career in design (and that includes direction): work on your basics and build from there. read up on typography (vignelli and brockman in particular) and forget about making things move for now.

 

anyway i hope that helps. and one more thing: get used to criticism... you will face a whole lot of it in this business and if you have a thin skin you're through. instead of putting down others' work as "trendy and flashy" work on your own game. in time you will see why everyone else respects those "trendwhores" so much.

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Guest spidex

man,

I've always thought mo graph will be a peice of cake for me until I've been so stuck with trying to get that *candy* glow or shiny star right. Its a different ball game, and as solid as my foundation in still design is ? I'm failing to plot things out in mo graph. As such, I've learnt my lesson to shut up and learn and keep attention to every little tips i can learn out there. I think we all need not try to define art for the world. We ain't hitler and have all witnessed the dark side of romanticism. Lets just enjoy what we do and cut dissolve the e-- and let it -go.

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Guest dun_d3viant
Lets just enjoy what we do and cut dissolve the e-- and let it -go.

 

Couldn't agree with you more. See you all at BDA... someday.. maybe.

 

Dun

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Guest dun_d3viant

 

 

just so you guys know you don't just walk into art director, producer or director jobs... you need to have a solid foundation of work before anyone is going to trust you with that level of control.

 

I know this. Seems like if I make a post asking for advice, that implies that I don't know a whole lot about the business. Maybe I should just give "advice" instead now.

 

also the "flashy, trendy types" are incredibly talented designers... when you get more experience you will see this.

 

I never said they were NOT talented. But, when I throw out negative words, apparently I am not allowed to since I am just out of college.

 

so just so you know... you gotta pay your dues before you start calling the shots. you will find this out and it will probably be a bitter pill to swallow (as it was for me) but that's the way things work.

 

:roll: yes dad.

 

i suggest you follow my original advice if you plan on pursuing a career in design (and that includes direction): work on your basics and build from there. read up on typography (vignelli and brockman in particular) and forget about making things move for now.

 

Yea, thanks for the advice. I just got hired into a major corporation, full time, great benefits, being an editor and motion graphics artist.. i get to shoot film too. Go me. *pats on back* But thanks for the vignelli and brockman. Brockman is great. Sorry, I have to focus on making things move. :( Sorry if this upsets you.

 

anyway i hope that helps. and one more thing: get used to criticism... you will face a whole lot of it in this business and if you have a thin skin you're through. instead of putting down others' work as "trendy and flashy" work on your own game. in time you will see why everyone else respects those "trendwhores" so much.

 

I will continue to critic other people's work in the fashion in which I feel comfortable doing. I hate a lot of work. Most adverts are garbage... i will always feel this way. I think I stepped out on a lot of toes through these post... which was my intention. In fact, I have gotten many hits on my website through Mograph... go exposure!

 

I appreciate all the negativity because it was attention all the same, and that's all I needed from this forum. However, it seems that MY criticism was too much for some... oh well.

 

If you had ANY idea how much criticism I can take, you would have not said what you just said. My skin is thick... thicker than yours probably. But, we are a bunch of artists with egos to defend ... so whatever.

 

Sorry if I came off as a hypocrite, pessimist, negative person etc.

 

If you flamed me for being one of these though, let's not throw bricks while in glass houses.

 

Thanks,

dun

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Guest jasfish

hahaha! you know what i love best about dun's response .. he basically says FU without actually saying FU. this thread is AWESOME!

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Guest Scorch

I think we should all just concentrate on his art

 

...but seriously

 

My skin is thick... thicker than yours probably.

 

it's gonna have to be

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Guest jeanorama

Nice potential. If you really want to break into the field, keep at it.

Keep looking around. Not enough motion. Try and take a course or two, and offer your services as an intern.

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Guest PrsROSE

jeanorama, i agree. i've since been reevaluating everything. that reel was def. a student reel.

but whatever, whats been done is done. now for bigger better things.

 

i appreciate dun sayin stuff for me, i've been biting my tongue... its unfortunate that this discussion cant be had in person, bc the points we've all brought up are extremely relevant to the field we are in...but due to the nature of internet and not being able to read 'mood' and 'intention' its hard to have a calm and mature discussion.

 

I think more than anything, me and Dun were frustrated with the overall tone recieved from this site... there were some good crits (like jeanorama etc--where encouragement was provided, and criticism as well...)

And when people give nice long crits, its good, its nice to hear the opinion, but its also hard to take without knowing the viewers 'intention'... are they just bashing my work or are they being genuinely 'genuine'...

 

in regards to the producer art director positions-- yes they take experience. no denying that. the point being made was that we've had several leadership positions in our lives, and we work better being leaders than button pushers. Its hard to understand what he meant without knowing 'us'... and thats noone's fault but our own-- it was a personal comment made in a public forum. apologies.

besides, some people have a better eye for the overall picture...

another note on that: I interviewed at Zona design, and Zoa (head honcho designer etc) agreed with Dun's comment. She said that we would make EXCELLENT producers/art directors. she said that with a little more refining we'd be on top of the game... so... like has been said, you cant really judge people by whats on the surface... Zoa was a good enough artist to see beyond the inherant surface weaknesses...

 

the problem sometimes is you cant judge a book by its cover. judging someones artistic worth is hard to do with seeing a demo reel or commercial etc... so we are forced to judge with what we see. and sometimes thats not what was intended. its an ongoing battle for us designers to communicate to the audience our true intentions/meaning behind certain pieces of work. i guess the goal is to make stuff that stands on its own two feet. doesnt matter how much experience you do or dont have, this will always be an issue. even if you say 'i did it for myself'

 

anywho. i only hope that we can all get on with things with no bad blood. everyone has made valid points, but unfortunatly not in the most mature manner or fair way... which is understandable in an internet discussion- its hard to read peoples intentions.

 

im rambling. i'm sorry.

thanks for checking out my shit. sorry if it didnt meet everyone's standards... but like i said, its an ongoing process. our potential/worth cant be judged by what is on the surface... art is always evolving.

 

sometimes you have to evaluate things on several levels... if the design is weak or motion sucks, maybe there are strengths elsewhere... perhaps this persons strength lies in concept or what have you. random thought.

 

oh i'll shut up now. whats the use in trying to explain anything.

~prsrose

*made some minor spelling edits and elaborated on a few vague sentences, i suck at typing/explaining i guess.*

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Guest PrsROSE
What?, you need to relax and not be so ruthless.  The reason why

people post their reels here is to get contstructive criticism, not to

be ridiculed and insulted by people like you.

 

thanks for this. this is essentially my only grievance with this site...its nothing personal against anyone. just overall there seems to be alot of negativity vs. constructive crits... at least thats what i've encountered. im sure its been better for others- im not going to say that the whole site is negative. the resources/links are great.

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Guest PrsROSE
the reason this style is seen everywhere is because it works and it's good.

And to be "hip" doesn't mean to be corporate. If you look in the reels section of this site you'll see the work that is respected the most is absolutely amazing, I don't think you could call MK12, Shynola, Psyop, Nexus, etc corporate. They are TRUE artists.

But alas, i think you are destined to end up in the world of corporate videos, if your lucky. And if your reel is anything like this one dun_d3viant then i can see why you "wanted to avoid (motion graphics) until I absolutely HAD to do it". And thank the lord for that!

i disagree that 'it works' and that its good. but i guess fundamentally thats why im not a designer in the eyes of this site (not ignoring the fact that my portfolio/reel sucks). I respect the work of mk12, but i really dont have a liking for it. its not my thing. i can respect the elements and everything put into it, but its just not...my thing.so it all boils down to opinion if you ask me. I do call it corporate bc its MTV...its NIKE... its corporate. These are not my intended clients. There is a market out there other than the urban hiphop trendy mtv generation. Seems theres a mentality on this site that anything that is not 'current-commercial' is somehow less valid... or that corporate videos/industrials are somehow all worthless/low quality.

There is more to the design industry than popular culture.

oh i should really shut the hell up i guess. bc i know nothing and everyone else knows everything right?

there is not one truth cast in stone.

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Guest PrsROSE

fortunatly/unfortunatly depending on who you talk to.

good eye for catching it :)

~evil jeff

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Guest PrsROSE

ive read elsewhere that you are into metal. rock on. i'm a long time metal freak.

keep it evil.

~jeff

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Guest SermonOfMockery

ha ha yeah, i've been listening to hatebreed since the demo back in 96 or whatever, they're great.

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