[AromaKat]

I have noticed a lot of confusion and questions about Blu-ray. Here, I will try to answer any and all of your questions concerning Blu-ray. This is a very frustrating subject and I would like to give a little knowledge back to the mograph.net community in hopes it will help some of you sometime. I know the headlines and categories seem a bit "authoring 101" but trust me, its all completely different from the world of standard definition DVDs. If you are looking for a short answer, just go to the last section called "how can I use blu-ray?". If you want the understanding and explanation, read on.

Replication vs. Duplication:
Most players sold do not have the ability to play back recorded media, as a form of piracy prevention. This rules out duplication for anyone who is planning on playing their disc in any player that does not have modified / rolled back firmware. It is impossible to put any type of AACS licensing or any other type of copyright protection on a duplicated disc. The PS3 in recent months have started allowing burned media, and it is expected that others will follow suit.

Replication plays everywhere, on every player, because it contains the embedded AACS data, which is explained below. Other types of copyright protection can be applied within the replication process.

Lesson 1: The 4 Blu-ray specs (for movie discs)

Before anything else, you need to understand that there are 4 different types of blu-ray movie discs. These are each designed for a category purpose, such as mass distribution, or home movies.

BDAV - Blu-ray Disc Audio Video: A pop-in and play Blu-ray disc. No menus possible. (I dont know if chapter points are even possible, but never tried) Point being, its great for home movies if you are an average consumer and are only concerned about playback.

BDMV - Blu-ray Disc Movie Video ("Movie" could be motion or moving - i cant remember right now): This is basically DVD functionality, with HD content. You can have the scripts we are all used to, and have motion menus, etc. All of this is pointless though, because there is no way to replicate it, which is explained in the replication section below.

HDMV - High definition Movie Video ("Movie" could be motion or moving - i cant remember right now) This is the spec the majority of studio and all blu-ray discs are released in. It supports pop-up menus, motion menus much like DVD, only with animation on buttons, transitional effects for the menu graphics, slice (image) swapping for button states instead of overlays as in DVD, and the ability to drop in small Java applications called "Xlets" that can be designed to do basically anything any java program can do. Connect to BD-Live, play games, etc. These menus, however, are limited to 256 indexed color palettes.

BD-J - Blu-ray Disc Java This requires a java programmer, but provides the most interactive experience. I am not going to even go here. Just give up on this now, even if you do program Java, because in reality, its not even a standardized Java and you need to pay insane licensing fees just for access to documentation on the call functions needed.



Replication
If you are using anything other than the Sonic Scenarist BD suite, or Sony Blu-print software, it is impossible to go to replication due to AACS licensing issues. Software such as Adobe encore and DVD it Pro HD do not make replicatable discs. Heres why-

Let me start out by explaining the types of copyright encryption is implemented in a blu-ray disc, and more importantly, how it is enforced.

AACS:
Every disc must have an AACS number associated with it, because all replication machines by law must be connected to the internet while it processes a new disc, sending the licensing info to the AACS association and processing your licensing fees. Each and every new set of data to go onto a disc must have a unique number, so if there are any changes that need to be made, this process must be started over and paid for once more. Usually, this is charged by the replicator and there is no work on your part to apply or anything. There is no such thing as a replicator that does not require this.

No matter what any software package says or spits out in the mux, it does not ever create real AACS files either. It only creates flags that the replicator sees, then applies once approval is made online within the replication machine.

BD+
Although this was the (reported) reason that Fox and others started to exclusively use Blu-ray, this is just recently starting to get implemented in titles and is still buggy on some players.
I have not personally ever been requested to use BD+ encryption. But here is an excerpt from wikipedia about what types of piracy prevention this uses:

Quote

* examine the host environment, to see if the player has been tampered with. Every licensed playback device manufacturer must provide the BD+ licensing authority with memory footprints that identify their devices.
* verify that the player's keys have not been changed.
* execute native code, possibly to patch an otherwise insecure system.
* transform the audio and video output. Parts of the content will not be viewable without letting the BD+-program unscramble it.

If a playback device manufacturer finds that its devices have been hacked, it can potentially release BD+-code that detects and circumvents the vulnerability. These programs can then be included in all new disc releases.

The specifications of the BD+ virtual machine are only available to licensed device manufacturers

ISAN:
This is a BS thing that the big replicators tell you is mandatory, when it is not legally required. Any smaller replicator that has Blu-ray capabilities (replication, not duplication) will not require this. Its basically registration for the same international metadata id number system that distributed books use.


Blu-ray Authoring Software you probably have

If you are still reading this, its more than likely because you are trying to work with either DVD It PRO HD, or Adobe Encore. While they both supposedly support the input of an AACS number, it is completely worthless and confusing why they even put it there. They do not apply it in a bd-compllient spec by any means. Both of these software packages and all other sub $30,000 softwares are limited only the the BDAV and the BDMV spec as mentioned above. Replicators require a HDMV spec, and more importantly, an image file in CMF 0.9 or above.

This is where things get really ugly.

CMF stands for Cutting Master Format. This is the only type of file a replicator can read. Also, while these prosumer companies are claiming they have "CMF output for professional replication", they fail to mention that its CMF version 0.89 and are getting the cold shoulder when trying to license the technology. This is where Scenarist and Bu-print have everyone else in check mate right now.


So.... What now? How can you use blu-ray??

Now you know that you are limited to the BDAV, and BDMV specs. No cool blu-ray features, just the HD content. You should now be over the fact that whatever disc you make will not play on many players other than the PS3 - if you have the most recent firmware - and software players on your pc / mac. Most players are made to not allow playback of burned media.

If you just need a one-disc presentation video, or you know for a fact that every person who will have one of these discs are playing it in a ps3 and are savvy enough to keep up with their firmware updates, then go ahead and just do it yourself using DVDit Pro HD or Adobe Encore.

How to burn your discs so they will play in a PS3 or set-top that allows burned media:
Make sure you burn your discs in a file format called UDF 2.5 (as opposed to ISO, udf 2.0, etc) because its the only format blu-ray movie players can read. I highly reccomend Cyberlink's Power2Go for this. For software playback of media you created, I recommend purchasing Arcsoft's Total Media Theatre, because instead of looking for actuall AACS information, it just looks for the folder. If you are testing your project from your hard drive prior to the burn, this is important, as you can siimply change the name of the AACS folder temporarily for in-computer testing, then change it back just prior to burning your disc.

If you ever plan on going to replication - just hire me!!


I hope this clears up a lot of confusion and is of use to someone out there. I am sure there are still questions, so feel free to leave questions.

My current Blu-ray setup at work:
Lacie D2 external burner
Software: Scenarist BD Suite
Power2Go
TotalMediaTheatre


In dedication of HD-DVD: The format everyone could use

[dumbo]

any tips for a mac based workflow? see my post here...

http://mograph.net/b...showtopic=16396

[AromaKat]

Dumbo,

Blu-ray profile 1.1 has nothing to do with your burner. Software determines this. Mac or PC. Only Scenarist and Blu-print can create profile 1.1 projects. (as of now).

Blu-ray, as opposed to HD-DVD, has always been an evolving spec and manufacturers were never sure what rules they had to build by.

If you are using anything other than Scenarist or Bluprint, you can only use your media on these older players, that also have to allow burned media.

Unless you are planning on only making a few copies for playback on controlled playback devices, give up before you go crazy because its just not possible. Hire an authoring studio that has the right software.

Adobe Encore is your only option on a mac. If you have a burning program that lets you burn a blu-ray video right out of there without authoring, it will be in BDAV spec. (straight play)

This post has been edited by AromaKat: 11 August 2008 - 06:23 AM

[dumbo]

AromaKat, on Aug 11 2008, 04:20 PM, said:

give up before you go crazy

too late. i hate BD now... and i've gone crazy.

Quote

Adobe Encore is your only option on a mac. If you have a burning program that lets you burn a blu-ray video right out of there without authoring, it will be in BDAV spec.

looks like i'll have to do that. cheers.

[AromaKat]

profile 1.1 is referring to a type of HDMV spec, as described above. The only option there is to hire an authoring house or someone that has pro blu-ray software.

Encore is okay as long as the disc is staying in your control and on your selected player that you rolled the firmware back on (or on a ps3)

Quote

i hate BD now... and i've gone crazy.

BD is easy to hate. And for good reason. The death of Blu-ray will be itself.

[dumbo]

Quote

Encore is okay as long as the disc is staying in your control and on your selected player that you rolled the firmware back on

at this stage its only for internal screenings, and for clients...

[AromaKat]

We are bouncing back and forth between two different threads here... For internal screenings, use Adobe Encore, choose Blu-ray image as what you export, then burn the disc using disc utilities.

In disc utility, choose "burn image to disc", and choose the .iso image you created from Encore. That will work in all players that allow burned media to be played. I have never had issues of newer players playing only 1.1, but i believe it.

[Phil]

Top post! Thanks for the info :-)

[Amnesia]

Huge thanks for this one!

[govinda]

I think everyone really appreciates the effort. Now when questions come up, people need to remember this thread for reference. Almost pinnable.

[degabar]

Excellent post. Thanks for the 101 AromaKat.

[Albo]

So what are the options for DUPLICATING a BDMV disc? Say I author in Encore and have it duplicated, am I only going to be able to play that in a PS3 and older players? I have a Panasonic BD35 unit - is this going to be incompatible?

[AromaKat]

You will need to be sure that any set-top player has firmware that allows BD-R playback. This was initially not allowed in the beginning - but it is slowly becoming common practice by the hardware manufacturers to allow it. Some players may require that you roll back to a firmware version that does allow it - which makes some BD-J applications act funky - but if you are authoring in Encore, this should not be a problem, since its not really even BD-spec.

PS3s are the safest bet. Duplication is fairly easy - just take it to someone who has a duplication tower or buy / build one yourself. Keep in mind that duplicated discs need to be played back within a controlled environment where you know the players which will be used to ensure that the disc does indeed play back.

[Todd Kopriva]

This is great information. I encourage you to share it directly with the folks trying to use Encore to make Blu-ray discs. I think that this page would be a great page to leave a comment on, providing a link to this thread.

Even better, you could put a version of this post on the Adobe website directly.

[RustyAce]

Bump. I know this post was first started in 2008, but has most of the information remained relevant and still hold true?

AromaKat are you still using the same software?
Scenarist BD Suite?
Power2Go?
TotalMediaTheatre?

[AromaKat]

Wow... old post.. but yes.. All in all, everything is the same. Players started allowing playback of BD-R discs more openly for a while.. then all of the manufacturers started limiting that functionality again. PS3 still rules all. Pretty much all set-top boxes are crap.

Is there anything in particular you are trying to do?

If you are looking to get into 3d, you are in for a world of pain. Its pretty much not possible unless you are using the high end stuff. And it does funky things, like eject the disc if the player hits a very specific bitrate. If you want 3D, the easiest way would be to comp a Side-to-Side or Top-to-Bottom video (broadcast method of stereoscopy) and put it on the disc like that, then let your TV set do the work.


The only major development in production software since then was the introduction of Blu-streak, which converts ISO images from Encore or DVDitPRO HD, and converts them into replication-compliant BDCMF files.


Sorry Todd, I missed your last post and never saw your request. Its rather old now.. let me know if I can still be of help.

This post has been edited by AromaKat: 22 July 2010 - 12:58 AM

[Todd Kopriva]

AromaKat, on 21 July 2010 - 05:56 PM, said:

Sorry Todd, I missed your last post and never saw your request. Its rather old now.. let me know if I can still be of help.

The same suggestions still apply. Thanks.

[RustyAce]

Thanks for the info, fortunately I will be avoiding 3D. Just there is a recent need in the studio to start burning playable blu ray's. So i figured i would seek out some extra knowledge and i remembered this post from a long time ago.

Thanks Again

[AromaKat]

Using Encore should be straight-forward enough for you to burn playable BD-R discs. You could even burn a BDAV disc with just a video file on there without authoring using Power2Go. The difficulties emerge when trying to make an authored disc, so that it can be sent for mass replication.