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"Fake-stop-motion" with C4D


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#1 Knusperschnitzel

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Posted 06 December 2008 - 03:22 PM

hi community :)

for a musicvideo i want to build a world of paper in 3D and animate it like it is filmed in stop-motion.
my problem is: i want to have the camera movement in 25 fps and the animated objects in 20 fps or less for the "stop-motion-style". how can i bring this together?

solution 1 (which will most probably not work): render the 20 fps animated things with alpha-channel and bring all together with 25 fps in the compositing
solution 2: "bake" the animation and set the keys "by hand" so it will have the stop-motion look. how can i do this in cinema without animating key by key... (a lot of work!)?

i'm just looking for a good way to keep flexible with my animation and still have the stop-motion look...
i'd be very glad to get some ideas!

thanks!
martin

#2 basilisk

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Posted 06 December 2008 - 05:45 PM

stop motion is traditionally on 2s (i.e. model moving on every other frame of film at 24 fps).
Assuming you are operating in PAL, I can't see a problem with rendering at 12.5 fps in C4D, and then importing to an AE 25fps timeline (make sure frame blending is turned off!)

If you use a framerate that does not divide into 25fps exactly (such as 20 fps) you will get an odd juddery motion that just looks like a mistake.

Edited by basilisk, 06 December 2008 - 05:48 PM.


#3 C.Smith

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 05:20 AM

Small note: If you download CSTools from my sig, CS_VibrateNull2 has a stop-motion function. It makes things vibrate in place at very low framerates of your choice. It won't solve your keyframed stuff but thought I would mention.
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#4 Knusperschnitzel

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 10:45 AM

thanks! you're right, maybe i first should get more infos about the traditional stop-motion thing... :)

#5 basilisk

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 12:49 PM

One of the main characteristics of stop motion (apart from the lower frame rate) is that tweening is not completely smooth and accurate (as it would be on a computer) but needs an element of error/randomness introduced.

Download some of the movies done by Pes and analyse them frame by frame to get a feel for how things look and move in stop motion.

Oh, and there are lots of good reasons to get CSTools if you don't have them already!

Edited by basilisk, 08 December 2008 - 12:51 PM.


#6 a2visual

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 01:41 PM

One thought, and I'm not entirely sure if this is possible, but is there a way you could animate at your final output frame rate, in this case 25fps, then use some sort of Xpresso to have it skip every other keyframe? You could obviously do this manually, but that would be cumbersome.

Edited by a2visual, 08 December 2008 - 01:41 PM.


#7 Rob M

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 05:17 PM

So.. If you combine 2 answers you might get the perfect result.
Some random stop motion movement from CS Tools, and 12.5fps render into a 25fps comp :)

#8 _gl

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Posted 12 December 2008 - 12:05 AM

One of the main characteristics of stop motion (apart from the lower frame rate) is that tweening is not completely smooth and accurate (as it would be on a computer) but needs an element of error/randomness introduced.

Download some of the movies done by Pes and analyse them frame by frame to get a feel for how things look and move in stop motion.

Oh, and there are lots of good reasons to get CSTools if you don't have them already!


!

I love "Western Spaghetti". It was lol.

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#9 Knusperschnitzel

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Posted 12 December 2008 - 12:21 AM

So.. If you combine 2 answers you might get the perfect result.
Some random stop motion movement from CS Tools, and 12.5fps render into a 25fps comp :)


sounds good! so let's hope for the perfect result ;)
thanks a lot!

#10 Rothermel

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Posted 12 December 2008 - 06:53 AM

You can render out a regular framerate in C4D, import it to AE.

Then you enable time remap for the clip. Select the Wiggler tool, this will allow you to generate many keyframes of time from the beginning to the end of the clip. Select all those keyframes and set them to Hold keyframes. then go in a manually delete and move frames around. that will give you the closest thing to stop motion. i did something similar here...


Nike Chicago - Fake Stop Motion

#11 shmo

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Posted 12 December 2008 - 02:35 PM

hi there,

I have done this quite a bit and i find that just dropping changing the frame rate in the output setting of the c4d render setting works pretty well. you will halve you render time too.. you can also just set the frame rate of your comp in ae to the desired frame rate.

#12 bushjumperpete

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 05:21 PM

Hello hope this isn't too late for you, and hello mograph community, its my first post.
I'm doing research in faking stop motion using 3D computer packages at the moment, and a few tips if you really want to add some depth to your animation. Firstly you have to remember that stop motion is animated using a technique used straight ahead, whereas keyframed animation that is done using computers or even cel used this method is known as pose to pose, as in you start with one extreme end with the next extreme and do all the frames inbetween, hence the term tweening. So what I'd recomend, is using the straight ahead technique in your animation package, move the character or piece of paper a bit, insert a keyframe, move on to the next frame, and do again until you have your end point. Won't look tidy, but thats the beauty of stop motion.
The next tip i'd give to make it authentic, remember that when the aniamtor moves the rig or character that he/she actually interacts with the object, and therefore makes some unitentional marks on the object, for example claymation, you can always see the animators finger prints all over it moving everytime they move the character, obviously animations like wallace and gromit, the animators are skilled and take care not to do this, but exceptional stop aniamtors like bruce bickford loves the textures the fingers add, and an important animator norman mclaren believed that with stop motion its the actual interaction with the model between camera shots that gives the animation its escence.
I also recently discovered that people can not really distinguish the difference between 24 fps and 8 fps and I myself always got better results from rendering the animation at 4 fps, to really give it that dirty stop motion effect.
Hope this was helpfull and not too late :)

#13 hotspanners

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 10:17 AM

Some great animation tips in here.


I'm doing some animated text that I'm going to composite into a stop motion scene and have had no problems with the animation, but the texturing is a bit of a bitch.

Anyone got any tips for achieving a look so that the text looks like it's been constructed from paper? I've done a reasonable job so far but it's still not quite right...

#14 hotspanners

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 11:05 AM

actually, just used the mograph random effector to mess up my object a bit. As explained below. Sorted!

http://www.c4dcafe.c...hl=paper shader

#15 Dansayshi

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 09:58 PM

hi there,

I have done this quite a bit and i find that just dropping changing the frame rate in the output setting of the c4d render setting works pretty well. you will halve you render time too.. you can also just set the frame rate of your comp in ae to the desired frame rate.



Don't know why, but I really liked that folding paper setup you had :) Nicely done!
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#16 Knusperschnitzel

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Posted 11 May 2009 - 11:32 AM

Hi Mograph-Community :)

After finishing my Animation with "Fake Stop-Motion", I just wanted to share some techniques i used.
First of all i nearly did the complete Stop-Motion thing in postproduction, which means i rendered it out of C4D as always with 25 fps.

Here's the clip:

For the animation of some trees i wrote a small XPresso script which generates a random frame-offset PLA-Animation. It's not perfect because i'm not a good programmer, but somehow it worked ;) First you have to set a PLA-keyframe on the spline you want to deform, then you apply the script on the spline. Put the spline-object in the object-field and adjust the velocity and strenght of the deformation.

http://www.martinspe...tion_script.c4d

In After Effects I partly used the bad-tv preset by graymachine for that kind of handmade-look: http://www.graymachi...le_graphics.zip. To made the sequences more "unperfect", I scaled all my rendered material up to 101% and applied a subtile camera-shake and change of exposure for every frame by the "Verwackeln"-window (I only knwo how it's called in the German version, maybe in English it's called the "shake" or "transform"-window??). Additionally i set down the framerate by the posterize time-effect und added some grain to the main-comp.

So basically that's it, maybe some of this can be helpful for you... :)

Greetings, Martin

#17 Mookomatic

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Posted 11 May 2009 - 02:40 PM

This is a great thread! Thanks for posting back Martin with your finished result and Xpresso script. The final piece is looking really good!
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#18 JMRicks

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 11:15 PM

I'm working on a project where a bunch of different pictures are morphing into different objects. The idea is to make it look like it's stop-motion, so I would like to apply the CS_VibrateNull2 to the individual clones so they each move slightly each frame to give that stop-motion effect (along with the lower frame rate). Does anyone know how I would do that? I've already got the morphing sort of figured out with multiple inheritance effectors, just need that vibration of each clone.

#19 JMRicks

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 11:55 PM

I guess I should have waited a little bit longer to make a post, because I think I figured out a solution. Just have to link up the parameters you want to vibrate (P.X,P.Z,R.H in my case) from the Vibrate Null to the corresponding Random Effector's Transform Parameters in Xpresso. Nothing too difficult, just took a little bit of time to figure out the right solution. I need to learn more Xpresso anyways.

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