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more than 24000 people dead ...

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#41 Guest_zug69_*

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Posted 29 December 2004 - 05:27 AM

Everyone is always quick to criticize America

For good reason - we're greedy, self-indulgent, ignorant pigs. Not all of us. But as a whole, I'm sure that's the way we come off to a lot of people.

We're resposible for a lot of fucked up shit.

#42 Guest_fredcamino_*

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Posted 29 December 2004 - 06:01 AM

here's a large list of international aid organizations accepting donations

#43 Guest_silatix_*

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Posted 29 December 2004 - 06:41 AM

you think this is going to turn into a video game?

#44 Guest_SermonOfMockery_*

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Posted 29 December 2004 - 06:46 AM

it already is, my friend

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Zettai Zetsumei Toshi 2: Itetsuita Kioku Tachi (PS2)
Zettai Zetsumei Toshi 2: Itetsuita Kioku Tachi is the sequel to Irem's disaster simulation game, Zettai Zetsumei Toshi, which was released in the US as Disaster Report and in Europe as S.O.S. Escape. While the first game dealt with surviving a mighty earthquake, the follow-up deals with another popular Hollywood catastrophe: a flash flood. Players choose to play as a man or a woman who has to survive in a city flooded by a massive tsunami. The backpack system from the previous game returns and players can carry useful utensils, such as a rope and batteries and use them to solve puzzles. Since water is everywhere, the game introduces the ability to swim and adds changing clothes as a new gameplay dynamic.

#45 Guest_parallax_*

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Posted 29 December 2004 - 09:47 AM


If you're going to walk around 24/7 pondering about all the fucked up shit that happens on our little globe, your life will not be pretty. believe me.

I'm only trying to put things in perspective for my own sake (selfish motive?!), as a lot of people will automatically do, and that's just human nature. The only thing you can do, like Fred said, is give aid to help out, and maybe even feel a little better about it afterwards.

I did not mean to offend anyone, just trying to point out how futile things can be sometimes.

#46 Guest_igorschmigor_*

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Posted 29 December 2004 - 02:55 PM

Hmm, i believe this is more than just one of many tragedies. It's in fact one of the biggest catastrophies of the last decade. Already 80000 dead, still counting and another 80000 people expected to be dying of the epidemies that are to follow. half a million people lost their homes.

Let me pick up this quote again:

And i think a lot of you will agree that from a western/1st world standpoint, it will naturally get less attention then a similar disaster happening in ie. Europe of The States. We perceive things differently, if there is a great difference in culture or heritage, so logically, we will care less when something happens 10.000 miles further, across multiple oceans

It's funny that you think that we europeans would care so much more about USA than about Asia. There are more asian people living in europe than americans. About half our restaurants serve asian food. We love Mangas. We love martial arts. Asia has in fact a big influence on our culture. It's not much further for us Europeans than America is.
Asia isn't really that different from our world.
Check the following pics. Can you tell at a glance that these are not from the "1st world"?

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And yes, i am stereotyping americans. Boooh, booh. But nobody complained when parallax stereotyped the asians as "some anonymous fisherman trying to meet ends on 4 dollars a week". Thanks to the people who help but i don't give a fuck about the people who don't give a fuck.

Btw. if you care more for rich, white people: a few thousand tourists from the west died there too.

#47 Guest_atslopes_*

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Posted 29 December 2004 - 03:21 PM

funny how a disaster like this gets people on mograph.net to start thinking on things besides themselves. People in the US complain about oh bush won the election life officially sucks. Yeah right imagine being a outsourced motion grapher working for pennies, and all u do is rotoscope footage from 7am to like 10pm at night. And now imagine after all of this u lose your family, life now officially sucks.

igorshomir wrote:

Btw. if you care more for rich, white people: a few thousand tourists from the west died there too

Yeah we all know that whites have more priveleges when it comes to just about everything compared to than other races thats getting really old now.
Yeah i think people should care no matter what creed or race has died. We are human beings for gods sake no one is better than the next man.

Yeah most people like or not live by one golded rule when it comes to tragedies:


#48 Guest_Sivart_*

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Posted 29 December 2004 - 03:35 PM

"About half our restaurants serve asian food. We love Mangas. We love martial arts."


#49 Guest_igorschmigor_*

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Posted 29 December 2004 - 03:52 PM

Just to show that Asia is not a whole different world. It's part of us and our culture too.
I mean, it seems schizophrenic to me, when a guy like Sermon talks all day about how he loves ThaiBoxing but makes jokes when a few thousand people die in Thailand.

#50 Guest_silatix_*

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Posted 29 December 2004 - 04:48 PM

its all about coping.. i cope with things by making jokes.. i knew people that made jokes about 9-11, that were right there when it happened..

you cant get angry when people dont react the way you do. asian culture is everywhere, but this wasnt an attack on asia, it was a natural disaster and its a mindfuck. you cant fight human nature, you'll just end up with a brain aneurysm

#51 Guest_fredcamino_*

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Posted 29 December 2004 - 04:49 PM

Btw. if you care more for rich, white people: a few thousand tourists from the west died there too.

here's where your confusion is at igor. it's not about who died in this disaster. my thoughts were the same on 9/11, even though that happened on american soil, much closer to home, and many more "rich white people" died, and that was even a concious act of murder. THERE ARE SOME THINGS IN LIFE THAT ARE OUT OF OUR CONTROL. i acknowledge the horror of these events, and the magnitude of this current one (although as someone mentioned earlier... no one remembers the quake in iran a year ago that killed 40,000), but i am not as grief stricken as you (although i don't think you are quiet as grief stricken as you claim... i can't see the redness in your eyes from the tears, but evidently you can see well enough to type) because i realize that this is simply the nature of life, the nature of human existence. and YES, if this happened to me or my loved ones, i would be stricken with greif and sadness and all that... not because they are rich halfwhite/halfbrown americans, but because they are the people i personally love (personally being the keyword). extremely selfish, yes i know. but if you are going to claim that you care more about the people you dont know more than those you know, or even claim that you care for the people you don't know equally... well i'd consider that a lie.

i live in a part of town called "thai town". ate thai food last night (the thai employees had no tears in their eyes, nor made any mention of the tragedy, americanized bastards). probably eat more asian food (chinese, thai, indian, japanese) during the week than any other type of food. people at my work watch anime 3 times a week during lunch. a best friend of mine is living in japan teaching humanties to japanese children. americans LOVE asian culture.

#52 Guest_igorschmigor_*

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Posted 29 December 2004 - 05:02 PM

Of course we all care more for the people we know. But to say "oh, it's just 0.00000... don'trememberhowmany percent" is like you don't care at all, like you're totally understating it.
I'm not sitting here crying, that's right. I'm not as traumatized as i was on 11th of september, because this is, as you said, a natural desaster. But damn, what a desaster. Parallax says he'd be shocked if it happened in the 1st world but this is just Asia. Sorry, but him saying this is what shocks ME even more. And how you assume that your indifferent - or youir listless existentialist absurdist point of view as you call it ironically - attitude is representative for the western world, this shocks me too.

#53 Guest_fredcamino_*

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Posted 29 December 2004 - 05:23 PM

no no no, my attitude only represents my point of view. i cannot speak for anyone else. and when i said it's just 0.0000whatever percent, as i stated, i wasn't trying to say "hey you lil babies, don't cry, hardly anyone died, pussies". it was a curiousity brought on by my perception that 45,000 people dead is a hell of a lot of people to me.... but 0.000whatever is a hell of a tiny percent. it was an expirment in perception. like i said earlier, events like this allow me to further understand what life is and where i stand in the grand scheme of things. and in my perception, my life is meaningless and insignificant, and only my perception of it makes it the grand sweeping epic i imagine it to be.

furthermore: i have no doubt at all that you are a better person than i for your worldview and perspective. i never claimed to be a good person. but this is just me, i am not the west. or humanity.

#54 Guest_parallax_*

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Posted 29 December 2004 - 06:24 PM

Parallax says he'd be shocked if it happened in the 1st world but this is just Asia

Igor, come on man, you gotta be kidding me.

Where did i say i was totally indifferent? You're misreading my post. I never said i was more or less shocked by 911 then this disaster, i'm just trying to discuss the fact that people perceive things differently, because the distance to the 'subject' is different. When i say WE Europeans, (INCLUDING people that are part Asian, ie. ME, if you happened to have conveniently read over it) are different, and care less, or at least pay less attention, that's not because we are better people, (cause we aren't) but because we're different.
You might think we are all the same, but we really are not. The cultural differences between Asia and Europe are astounding. That's why people in general care less in the long run. Do you think we will pay as much media attention to this tragedy as ie. 911? I very much doubt it. This will be forgotten within 2 years, and 911 will be remembered through the remainder of the century. Remember Bam?
I'm just so fed up with the fake-ass compassion, and those fake-ass holymen acting all righteous on the telly, it makes me wanna throw up. Not to mention the double standards oozing out of this society.

I'm not saying you are a fake-ass, i'm not saying you should care more or less, hell, i'm not even saying I care more or less, cause that is none of your business. Don't you think 100.000 people dying doesn't knock me off my feet? Then i wouldn't be typing all this crap in the 1st place. We all have different ways to cope with this shit, and i'd be sure to NOT post anything on this board when someone close to me dies.

#55 Guest_SermonOfMockery_*

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Posted 29 December 2004 - 06:28 PM

i have said many, many times that i hope people make tons of crass jokes when i die. i told my mom she should just throw my corpse in the trash, or give it to the neighborhood dogs to play with.

#56 Guest_govinda_*

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Posted 29 December 2004 - 07:13 PM

There actually is an element of bad intent in this, or to be more precise negligence, which keeps it from being a completely natural disaster. I've spent a lot of time in Asia and have family in Malaysia, Singapore, Hong Kong, the Philippines and China (none were affected by this). Across Asia, what is always amazing is the level of pragmatism, humility, adaptivity and ingenuity in dealing with everyday life.

But unfortunately this doesn't extend to their governments, with the exception of the miraculous, if authoritarian, Singapore.

The nations hit the hardest, Indonesia, Thailand, India and Sri Lanka are all monstrously corrupt. The people of Asia tend to accept this corruption as a fact of life that doesn't affect them. The lesson of the past century is that those voices who speak loudest are the ones who die youngest. Dying young--not practical, why make waves? What's more, in most cases the alternatives were bad (authoritarian corruption) or terrible (communist corruption). In a perfect world, the people in those countries would channel their amazing pragmatism into something just a little abstract, which is to say effective government, and grow themselves better options than papa Sukarno vs. the PKI.

But the revelation in this disaster is that corruption is a fact of life that does indeed affect them. As the death toll climbs as a result of infection, it's clear that the element of evil in this is old-fashioned apathy and negligence on the part of these countries' governments. Where a strong public health system would be a wise idea, handouts to cronies were the choice. Where emergency management would have worked wonders, shopping vacations in Geneva for the kids were the priority. Where early warning systems would have saved thousands of lives, golf courses were fast-tracked.

The parts of these countries that were affected were also those very parts where the governments are weakest and most compromised. Aceh in Indonesia, where a Muslim insurgency has been around since I can remember, southern Thailand, likewise if less so, and everyone knows about Sri Lanka, which has been both the worst and the best in recent years. It's times like these that we realize that decades of ethnic and religious strife are more than merely localized, little problems. The power vaccum they've created has made the simplest acts of proper governance the hardest. If the Indonesian government could've worked a few things out, there might've been honest institutions in place to handle emergencies in remote places like Aceh.

The two actually work together. The corruption feeds the insecurity, and the insecurity feeds the corruption. For a long time observers have thought that both things effectively put a ceiling on Asia's prosperity. Now we know they're also capable of causing a public health disaster.

Okay, that's my LA Times editorial. Apologies for the broad generalizations.

#57 Guest_fredcamino_*

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Posted 29 December 2004 - 07:18 PM

finally, govinda speaks! :lol:

#58 Guest_silatix_*

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Posted 29 December 2004 - 08:52 PM

well said.. one more reason why i enjoy this forum so much

#59 Guest_MBX_*

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Posted 29 December 2004 - 10:29 PM

my intergalactic friends are going to save us:

#60 Guest_zug69_*

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Posted 29 December 2004 - 10:35 PM

God, I hope they take me with them. :)

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