Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
flow

workflow advice for very very big resolution

Recommended Posts

hi,

 

we are soon starting a project with a very very big resolution (14160 x 1200). it is a 360 degree piece, containing mostly 2D stuff (moving matte painting) which we plan to do in AE. some 3D stuff will be done in C4D.

 

the big bump is obviously the render time but i guess there is no way around that. my biggest concern though is that it probably will be a big pain to work in AE with such big resolutions. i would be very grateful for useful tips on how to tackle such a project:

 

my thoughts so far:

 

-be very organized

-make heavy use of proxys

-prerender a lot -> again use proxys

-have certain comps in a smaller resolution and blow them up

 

overall questions:

 

-is it smart to save BG pics and such as png or jpg instead of psd files to reduce the data size?

-is there a way to work with particular in a smaller resolution and then somehow upscale the results? (colapse transformation)?

 

 

again, would be very grateful for some workflow tipps.

 

thx

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i'd recommend doing as much as you can in c4d. and then add post effects in AE.

 

Also if its 360, then you could do an actual curved 360 scene, and a camera for each screen. I'm not toally sure of the benefits of such a set up, but i guess it depends what kind of effects you are doing.

 

That way you don't have to work with a high resolution file. and just a high resolution final output and then adding some post effects to that.

 

then again im not sure what kind of project you have so its hard to really say.

 

edit: Levante pointed out that this is a silly idea, unless you use multiple camera's to render.

Edited by vozzz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To my knowledge you've pretty much mentioned everything, it's one of those you'll just have to work out as you go along.

But 14160 x 1200! Jesus!

 

I think you're best off avoiding compressed formats (JPEG/H264 etc) as they will put more load on your processor. I think using Tiff's/PSD's will be better but I'm sure there's some more technically minded people here who can help.

 

I'm not sure if it'll help but there maybe some workflow stuff in these two tutorials. It's a pretty large resolution project too. I'm not sure if it's directly applicable to your project but there's some interesting workflow ideas on keeping separate AE projects for different stages and different bit depths etc.

 

Good luck!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing that will help with renders is the technique outlined in this thread using the BG Renderer script: http://mograph.net/board/index.php?showtopic=28851&hl=renderer

 

With comps that big AE Multiprocessing will run out of memory and choke to death, but multiple instances of BG Renderer will give you extra rendering horsepower with better memory handling. For example, I have a recurring project with an output size of 5760x3240 (9 HD monitors in a 3x3 grid). If I try to render these using AE MP, I get the perpetual spinning beach ball. But I can consistently have 4 instances of BG Renderer going on that same file, and be able to use AE (somewhat more slowly) at the same time.

 

I also try to use high quality jpeg sequences for renders just to keep file sizes down, but I haven't done any tests to see which image format processes the fastest. The biggest pain is that there is really no way to monitor the final file at full res so you have to be careful of details that might hide when viewing at low resolution and then bite you in the ass on final output.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We did a trade show screen last year that was very wide. Not as large as you're talking, maybe a little more than half. We (being myself and the other cats on the job) all agreed after some tests that were doing ourselves no favors by trying to output something at full res. We had time constraints. We decided to render everything half res. You may have already nixed this idea, but just incase you hadn't considered it, we found the results to be basically indistinguishable from full res. We just output /2 and then x2 the final clip so the projector would like the dimensions it was getting. FWIW.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i'd recommend doing as much as you can in c4d. and then add post effects in AE.

 

I'd suggest to do the opposite: do anything you can in AE. Render times in 3D are much to long for this kind of resolutions - also you'd have to work with a multi camera setup to avoid perspective distortions, which makes things even more complicated.

 

Apart from that: pre-render as much as you can, use proxys, use cropped pre-comps when possible, consider not working at full res and blowing up your output, use BG Render with skip existing files, get tons of storage.

Also be aware that AE has a built in maximum layer/buffer size, that only appears when rendering full res. Can be a pain in the rear when you've animated and previewed everything at 12% (or less) and then the comp refuses to render on 100%. (On projects like this i often did test renderings in full res over night and scaled them down in the output module to a playable size, just to check if it actually renders)

 

You should also calculate in a lot of time just for converting and splitting the renders to your final output format (suppose there isn't gonna be just one player device for the whole format) as well as for simply copying the finals to hard drives for delivery. This is gonna be a lot of data.

Edited by levante

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We had time constraints. We decided to render everything half res. You may have already nixed this idea, but just incase you hadn't considered it, we found the results to be basically indistinguishable from full res. We just output /2 and then x2 the final clip so the projector would like the dimensions it was getting. FWIW.

 

I've worked on a few of these kinds of large projects and have found this to be the case most of the time. As soon as you have such a huge screen in most cases the viewer needs to be reasonably far back to take in the image anyways.

 

After testing I don't think we ever decided to go 100% full res on any of these really large format projects.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I'd suggest to do the opposite: do anything you can in AE. Render times in 3D are much to long for this kind of resolutions - also you'd have to work with a multi camera setup to avoid perspective distortions, which makes things even more complicated.

 

That makes sense. with one camera the distortion would be ridiculous on such a wide shot. yeah.. didn't think this through... =)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just worked on one that was 8000x1200 but it was a 40 minute long piece. We used AE on our render farm which really helped. As for the 360 renders from cinema it may help to use a reflective sphere with the bake texture tag on it. Good luck

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd do it all in C4D then use the cylindrical lens effect to render out your 360 with a camera in the center of the world. That will give you a flattened panoramic from one camera.

 

Biggest advantage is speed in the building phase and test rendering at lower resolutions. I'd argue that 2D image planes in C4D have comparable rendertimes to AE if not faster. Not to mention you can view it/ build it from the perspective of the viewer in its full 3D space context.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

fleezy, can you elaborate a bit more on this approach as I am really interested in this with some projects coming up.

 

We did a 5Kx2K render last year that was almost 3 min and a beast. This was actually a quarter resolution of the final output that was hardware upresd. Might be worth while to make sure the specs are dead on with the company handling the file on the projection side too. Might be the same or might be able to sneak a lower size a bit too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not much to it really. You'll need a camera in the center of the world and add the cylindrical lens post effect in your render settings. It's basically a parallel camera (no perspective) that renders all the way around.

 

In your cylindrical lens properties, set the horizontal field of view (up to 360º) and set the vertical size. The vert size you'll have to play with to get the right aspect as this depends on your render resolution.

 

Also take into account how far the viewing audience will be from the surface of the projection. There's some math behind all that but rarely does anything ever need to be 1:1 resolution. You could knock things down 50%-75% of the projector's native raster and be just dandy from the viewing positions.

 

my 2 cents

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We did a 4 screen projection job last year, i think it was 28,000 x 1280. Was certainly fun espeically as i think we were only just shy of the max comp size for AE. Our's were delivered as 4 crops though, as it was being projected on a large cube.

 

We also got in some pretty powerful computers for it - 2 6 core i7's each with 32gigs of ram. After effects actually handled it pretty well, the strangest part is just working at such a weird aspect ratio. But its worth using your resolution pull down under the comp window to work at maybe 1/8 or 1/16 res which help us a lot with previews. It really depends on your setup and doing some proper testing beforehand to see how your hardware copes. We had AE, nuke and cinema4d all working at this size and there were no major issues but we weren't pushing anything fancy. The biggest issue was a shot of dynamic balloons with photos bursting through them, c4d handled it well but even with raytracing turned off it took a while to render at that size. Especially as the length of the anim went up and up - ended up taking 6 days to render on and off as the final piece was almost 2mins.

 

One issue i did find is, as mentioned above to stay away from compressed file formats, they slow down your comp substantially. I was even getting crashes in AE cs6 from using jpgs i think at that size. They worked fine at full res but once i went down to 1/8 res they'd get glitchy

 

My work colleague's actually doing a making of video this week so might be able to show some stuff though its not super detailed in the making of.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...